Centastone Output Pack (Advisor Interview)

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Now don't switch this off just because we're gonna be talking about insurance because we've got Johnny Winstone\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n00:09\r\nin to tell us all of the things we want to know to learn more about this exciting space, mate. A man that I believe has been in the industry for over a decade now. Coming up to it. Yeah. Yeah. What drew you to the insurance industry originally? Well, mate, it was actually, with a bit of family encouragement. So my wife's father,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n00:26\r\nhas been in the industry for close to forty years now. His father, his grandfather were also in the space. Wow. And I was at a bit of a crossroads about ten years ago, and,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n00:36\r\nI was looking at sort of two fields to get into. One was actually to look at going into supermarkets, and then the other was going into insurance.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n00:42\r\nAnd so I went out and ghosted him for a couple of days. He was able to show me his process, what he does, how he interacts with people, and it just started to resonate with me. And\r\n\r\nYou\r\n00:52\r\nthe thing that I was looking for out of my career was to be able to provide value to people on an ongoing basis, and I truly see that our personal insurance offering is a way that we can achieve that, great way of meeting people, and, you know, an amazing way to build a business and lifestyle off the back of it. Yeah. Nice. So fast forward to today then, you know, ten years of doing this, how many how many clients have you got? You're a very busy man. Yeah. Look. The each day is pretty hectic, but, we wouldn't change anything about that.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n01:19\r\nSo we're managing a client base of about 6,000 people now. Yeah. So some of that's come through acquisition, and then a lot have come through my own network, individual clients that I've brought on, but always looking to grow into the future. And now I'm getting a big kick out of seeing other advisers join me on the journey and seeing them start to build their client bases. So each day it grows and gets more exciting. What's changed from ten years ago in the insurance space to now? Like, what would I'm I'd imagine Heaps has, but what are the sort of main things that you've seen in that time? In the industry? Yeah.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n01:50\r\nLook. I think we're starting to see this real influx of robo advice,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n01:54\r\ncome in, which is online provided advice for clients going in, signing up to policies online.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n02:00\r\nLook. I think it's great for exposure in the industry, but I don't necessarily think that clients are getting a true understanding of what's available and how they should structure their own personal insurance.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n02:11\r\nWe're seeing a lot of these clients that we happen to stumble across\r\n\r\nYou\r\n02:15\r\nmight only have a singular benefit in place, but they think that it caters to all of their risk needs, and that's not the case. So through education, we bring them up to speed, sort of show them what's available, and go through that process and put them in a better position.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n02:28\r\nSo through some of the robo advice, etcetera, they're potentially signing up for things that they don't actually understand\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n02:34\r\nor think they've got cover that they may not actually have? Correct. And I think, like, we're pretty conditioned,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n02:39\r\nwe're getting better in New Zealand anyway, of\r\n\r\nYou\r\n02:41\r\nhaving some exposure to life insurance, but people are taking out a life insurance policy and thinking that's all they need. Mhmm. But they're not then going the step further to think about major illnesses and losing their income if they were to be out of work for a period of time. So without that education piece, they're doing what they feel is the right thing to do, but but they're sort of missing a piece to the puzzle.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n03:02\r\nWell, any insights, mate, to to stick to your craft for a decade? Like, a lot of people struggle these days to do one, two, even three years would be, like, a long time to stay somewhere. Sure. But I'd imagine that from\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n03:14\r\nonce you, you know, get through those first couple of years, then you're into your rhythm, and then it's probably the same thing just about every day, every week, every month, every year. And would I be right? Well, yes and no. Like, there there's a like, I enjoy a lot of things about what I do for work, and, fundamentally,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n03:32\r\nthe big thing is people. Right? Like, I get a lot of, value out of meeting people, meet some really inspiring,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n03:39\r\ncharacters along the way, which, like, I take a lot from.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n03:42\r\nYeah. Probably more recently,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n03:44\r\nthe challenge has been or the challenge and the opportunity has set in seeing the business grow and the involvement of now managing a team\r\n\r\nYou\r\n03:52\r\nand all that comes with that.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n03:54\r\nBut, yeah, each day seems to be different, but\r\n\r\nYou\r\n03:57\r\nworking with those clients, building those relationships, and now sort of years into it, starting to support them as claimed is starting to arise for various health conditions or minor events and just being there for them and actually being a voice that they can\r\n\r\nYou\r\n04:11\r\nconsult with, that they might not be able to with some of their own family even.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n04:15\r\nThey might not be able to get all of their advice from their doctor. So we do turn into a bit of a counselor, and we really respect and value that position that we hold with clients at particularly at that point in their lives. Because I I imagine a lot of people probably just look at insurance or the industry and think, oh, you're just selling people insurance. But that's just literally the start. Right? And there's ongoing advice, making sure it's fit for purpose\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n04:37\r\nand also\r\n\r\nYou\r\n04:38\r\nhelping them if they need to actually use it? Look. I personally run quite a pragmatic approach to people's levels of cover that need to go into place. You know, I think a lot of people can quite often build in nice to haves in the values that are getting created, but in turn, that's gonna increase the premiums.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n04:54\r\nYeah. So by running a more sort of staged approach to people's insurance,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n04:59\r\nwe put in place what's required now with a a twelve to twenty four month lens on it, but we stay in regular communication and start updating\r\n\r\nYou\r\n05:06\r\nas their life dictates it. And that might be increases depending if their family's growing, if they're taking on more debt, but it might equally be decreases as things are starting to improve in value in their background, whether it's KiwiSaver balances, the property values,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n05:21\r\nmortgages getting reduced, kids are now getting older.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n05:24\r\nThere are always a lot of variables that are constantly shifting, and it we don't wanna fall into a trap of going, hey. Look. We're thinking about having kids in three years' time. Let's consider that in part of the life insurance conversation now\r\n\r\nYou\r\n05:36\r\nbecause you take out more cover than that's what's required. And it might not be three years. It might be five years. So why pay the additional premium throughout that period of time? Just build a relationship with your adviser and sort of actually,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n05:49\r\nyou know, be open to having that review because\r\n\r\nYou\r\n05:52\r\nit's not always about us coming out to sell you more insurance. That's not the aim of the game. We just wanna make sure it's reflecting your position on an ongoing basis. Yeah. Nice. And that's actually sustainable. Because I guess the worst thing is that people will then get rid of their insurance because they don't, you know, feel like they they need it, and then they've got no cover. Yeah. Or people just don't engage with us for reviews, not so much with our clients, and then they start getting a bit disgruntled that they've just got this outgoing, and they don't understand what it's for. Yeah. And so we find through the review process, if you keep the conversation refreshed, people understand it, they get it, they see the value in it, and they're quite happy investing that premium on a monthly basis to know that they have that good solid plan b.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n06:33\r\nSo when you got involved in the industry in year one, did you see yourself doing a decade and and and carrying on from there? Yeah. I did. I absolutely saw where it is my career. Yes. And I was exceptionally fortunate to have my father in law's guidance on the way through, and I'm very grateful\r\n\r\nYou\r\n06:49\r\nfor him early on in particular. Yeah. In fact, he said he didn't want me early on, so he kicked me to one of the corporate insurers, which was the best thing I could have done at the time to get their training, get an understanding of the insurance world. And as I say to people, I went and joined him after a year and got the real world training of how it actually works and became an independent adviser, so we work with all insurance companies.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n07:11\r\nBut, yeah, it was always gonna be the Korean.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n07:14\r\nThere were always grand plans of working in his business with an aim to take it over.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n07:19\r\nThat, by\r\n\r\nYou\r\n07:20\r\ndefault, has actually started to change over the years. My business has got bigger.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n07:25\r\nStill a conversation that's\r\n\r\nYou\r\n07:26\r\non the table, but,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n07:28\r\nyeah, look. There's always something to work through. Yeah. Nice one. Well, insurance is a very wide topic. Right? So let's just narrow it down a little bit in terms of the types of insurance that you're mostly focusing on. And I had a quick look that apparently the most popular types of insurance in New Zealand, I'm keen to know if chat GBT is right on this, mate,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n07:46\r\nhealth, life, and income protection if we stay away from general and fire and stuff like that. Right? So would that be are those, like, the the key three these days that people are looking at? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So those are the fundamentals\r\n\r\nYou\r\n07:59\r\nto insurance. And inside that, there's a few different benefit subsets that you can consider.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n08:05\r\nBut, certainly, my focus sits in the space of looking after individuals\r\n\r\nYou\r\n08:09\r\nopposed to assets. So those are certainly the benefits that we offer to all of our clients. But probably the big one that's missing from there that I've been most passionate about is something called trauma insurance, which is really focused as a lump sum payment that's made at the diagnosis time for major health conditions, whether it be cancers, heart attacks, and strokes.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n08:31\r\nBut to me, that is the biggest life insurance related benefit\r\n\r\nYou\r\n08:35\r\nthat can really protect somebody's overall financial position.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n08:39\r\nYou know, getting that cancer diagnosis can be heartbreaking. It can be financially\r\n\r\nYou\r\n08:44\r\nvery unsettling for people,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n08:46\r\nbut having\r\n\r\nYou\r\n08:47\r\nthis payment come through at that point in your life can just take a lot of pressure off. It allows you to focus on the recovery without having to sell assets, come out the other side, and still be in a sound financial position for the rest of your life and also retirement.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n09:01\r\nSo is that did you say is that a so trauma, is it a type of life insurance, did you say? Yeah. So I broadly refer to life\r\n\r\nYou\r\n09:08\r\neverything as life insurance. However, inside life insurance, there are other lump sum payments, whether it's the trauma benefit,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n09:15\r\nanother one called total and permanent disability cover,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n09:18\r\nwhich is centered around loss of lit the use of limbs,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n09:23\r\nbut more commonly now we actually see it getting paid out around mental health conditions, which is a a growing area of concern in New Zealand. And then we have the sort of income protection related benefits, whether it's purely to replace income or if it's centered around making sure the mortgage can be serviced if you're out of work. Getting in the KiwiSaver fund that suits you and your situation is key to making sure you're maximizing your investment.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n09:46\r\nGenerate are an award winning KiwiSaver provider with a track record of long term performance and they can help you do exactly this. Their advisors can meet with you to talk about all your options when it comes to KiwiSaver to help you decide what's best for you. Too many people never get KiwiSaver advice, but not you. Go to generatekiwisaver.co.nzed/change\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n10:07\r\nto book a no obligation chat with a generate adviser. A copy of the product disclosure statement is available at generatekiwisaver.co.nzed.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n10:14\r\nThe issuer of scheme is generate investment management limited, and of course, past performance does not guarantee future returns.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n10:20\r\nSo your trauma cover could, like you said before, it could be cancer, heart attack, stroke. So you have one of those events in your life and basically that then\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n10:29\r\npotentially\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n10:30\r\ntriggers the payment of that, and you can use that to support your income\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n10:33\r\nor,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n10:34\r\nthe cost of your how your life now looks?\r\n\r\nYou\r\n10:37\r\nWell, it's more about meeting sort of increased living expenses as a direct result of getting that used. Yeah. So quite often, what I've seen with some of my clients is that\r\n\r\nYou\r\n10:46\r\nthey may be out of in out of work and also their income's been reduced or disappeared completely,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n10:52\r\nbut they in turn then need their partner to stop work to now care for them or be able to look after the children on a full time basis. Yeah. So we're actually allowing for both parents in some cases to be out of work and be able to financially manage that. But it's more about meeting the short term unexpected expenses opposed to it being a long term strategy for replacing lost income, and that's certainly where the value starts setting in income protection and mortgage repayment benefits. Okay.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n11:18\r\nSo then life insurance, this one seems a little bit simpler, is built around you pass away\r\n\r\nYou\r\n11:25\r\nand or you may pass away. Is that right as well? Or that's different again. Correct. So I think that's a big big misconception Yeah. Is that it's just a benefit that pays out if you have passed away. The reality is that it can also pay out if you have a terminal illness where there's less than a year to live.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n11:41\r\nI've had quite a few clients who have unfortunately been in this position, and it's been, you know, very interesting for me to be part of that journey with them.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n11:51\r\nBut in our conversations, the life insurance value is normally equated by, you know, the mortgage level, what levels of income we need to replace if they have passed away for their family.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n12:01\r\nBut when people have had a terminal diagnosis, I've had clients that have put their family onto a plane. They've gone and had the family holidays while they still had the ability to do it. Yeah. Had other clients who've gone out and bought a motor home because that was always part of their retirement dream, and they still wanted to be able to do that together\r\n\r\nYou\r\n12:18\r\nbefore they had to come back and deal with the reality of their situation. So\r\n\r\nYou\r\n12:23\r\nin our conversations, we have to send it around tangible items.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n12:27\r\nBut when people find themselves in that situation,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n12:30\r\nall bets are off and other things can be exercised.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n12:33\r\nYeah. So, basically, let's say someone like, how do you actually prove this? So you get a terminal diagnosis\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n12:39\r\nfrom a doctor, I assume, and then you go to your insurer or your adviser and then say, hey. Unfortunately, this is my situation.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n12:48\r\nYou know, have I triggered my insurance policy? And they just wired the cash over. Is that correct? In in a fit, that's how it works. So two specialists in that particular field would need to sign off that there it was a terminal diagnosis with that timeline.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n13:01\r\nBut from there, it's actually quite a straightforward process. And with life insurance claims, with the paperwork being available, claims are often paid within inside a week. Wow. So it does give very quick access to those funds.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n13:14\r\nAnd those funds might not go into the family holidays or the camper vans like some of my clients, but they might also go into additional medical treatment that might be available overseas, and it's not funded through our public health system or even the New Zealand based medical insurance policies. Yeah. But because they've got those funds available to them, they might be able to make different decisions that weren't previously available to them. So insurance is basically derisking a potential outcome,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n13:42\r\nright, no matter which way we look at it, whether it's a fire or death, etcetera. Correct. Yeah. Like, I mean, until you're in a position where you can write a check out to cover the financial exposure that sits in your life, that's where there's value in having that insurance in place. And as I say, as your position evolves over time and other assets grow in value, your need for insurance is actually gonna taper off. Yeah. So we need to map that out on our journey through our review conversations.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n14:08\r\nWhen do from your experience and then, Shrume, when do people\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n14:12\r\nnormally first get introduced to insurance in New Zealand? Is it around purchase of the first property? Yep. Bang on. Bang on. So it's it's either triggered by,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n14:21\r\ngetting married, which is probably\r\n\r\nYou\r\n14:23\r\nless common as the the driver to take out insurance, but then certainly having children\r\n\r\nYou\r\n14:28\r\nand then taking on debt where their financial exposure is starting to increase.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n14:32\r\nThat's where we need to cover that that that financial risk through insurance. And so does that look like, okay. I've now got debt.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n14:39\r\nIf I was to lose my income or life, etcetera, I want the comfort of knowing I've derisked the situation\r\n\r\nYou\r\n14:46\r\nwith a financial side on the other side of it where that could clear some of the mortgage or assure that the mortgage can still be paid so we don't lose the property? Correct. Yeah. So it's just taking that practical approach. And if it's a young couple buying a property and it's $50.50, it might not necessarily be that we're gearing your life insurance up to cover all of the debt because\r\n\r\nYou\r\n15:05\r\nyou might not have any dependents yet. You might buy you both might be making good levels of income. So it's more about just reducing your share so that no financial burden's passed on to your partner.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n15:17\r\nEqually, the same logic applies to income replacement.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n15:20\r\nWe don't always need to cover all of your income. The levels are really gonna be dictated by your current commitments and forecasting\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n15:28\r\nwhat those might increase over time and making sure that, financially, we have a plan in place to manage that. What about, you know, people being made redundant at the moment and losing their jobs and stuff? Is are they covered with some of these policies, or does income protection not sort of cover that that space? Yeah. It's certainly a pretty topical conversation at the moment. We're getting some phone calls. Yeah. We're certainly seeing a a a Verizon,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n15:52\r\nrequest to take out redundancy cover. In short, it is still available in New Zealand, but post COVID, a lot of the insurers pulled out of that space. Yeah. So we're down to two options.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n16:02\r\nCan't can't be taken out as a stand alone benefit, so it needs to be taken out in conjunction with an income protection or a mortgage repayment benefit. Yeah. But, yes, they're still certainly available and certainly will come in hot demand.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n16:16\r\nPersonally, I feel you, you know, individuals really need to look at their situation. They need to look at their employment contracts, work through it with their adviser to see if it's actually gonna be the right fit for them because they might actually be getting enough of a payout through their redundancy clauses in their contracts to actually outweigh what the benefit is in that redundancy product.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n16:36\r\nAnd I always say to people, with redundancy,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n16:39\r\nthe likelihood is that you've actually still got your health and your ability to work.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n16:43\r\nSo you might not go necessarily straight back into your dream job and dream levels of income, but you can still go out and work and get by and work your way back to those positions.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n16:53\r\nI would always be more focused on when you've lost the ability to work, when the big accidents happen, when the major health conditions come along, and you're out of work, it's out of your control with an unknown timeline.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n17:04\r\nAnd I tend to put more focus on that side of the conversation because of the long term risk associated to it.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n17:11\r\nAnd with the average age\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n17:13\r\nincreasing for the purchase of a first home, I think it's coming from, like, 25 to 37 or something, have you noticed that your customer age has increased naturally? Because then people aren't looking at insurance as early.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n17:25\r\nWe probably haven't seen so much of that average age shift in in our world. Like, as you know, I work with some great mortgage brokers.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n17:33\r\nOne of them sits on the podcast on a regular basis, and, typically, we're still seeing those clients be in their, like, twenties and early thirties. And I know that that's not the case based on the averages, but, certainly, the clients we're seeing and engaging with\r\n\r\nYou\r\n17:46\r\nare typically in that 20, 30\r\n\r\nYou\r\n17:49\r\nage band. Yeah. And then it's about building a relationship with them that we can look after them for the future and take care of them for their future insurance needs as well. And is there,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n17:59\r\nyou know, is there something we need to be thinking about when we aren't necessarily buying a property,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n18:05\r\nthat we need to be thinking about insurance earlier? Like, is there a case for younger people thinking about insurance in their early twenties? Sure. I mean, in effect, as soon as you start generating income, that becomes your greatest asset long term. Right? Yeah.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n18:18\r\nSo even if we look at basic maths for a 25 year old who happened to be on a 100,000, which I know is not always the case, but it makes the maths easier.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n18:27\r\nYou know, even without inflation and without any pay increases, over a thirty year time period to retirement,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n18:35\r\nforty year time period. Sorry. I might need to eat at that part.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n18:39\r\nYou know, that that's effectively a $4,000,000\r\n\r\nYou\r\n18:42\r\nasset to them that they might lose out on generating because of one of these unexpected health conditions arising. So my view is that the conversation should start early. We don't need to overinsure you early on, but we do need to start managing that risk as soon as you start generating income. Because most people who are working, to the most part, will be already renting properties. They might have some car finance. They might be making,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n19:06\r\nyou know, they might have committed themselves to\r\n\r\nYou\r\n19:10\r\nsome financial commitments and debt. Yeah.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n19:12\r\nSo the question does become, even at a young age, how would you support those expenses that aren't gonna disappear because you're not working,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n19:19\r\nand that's where the insurance piece comes back into it? And on that, is it cheaper when you're younger because you're then less likely to die probably statistically? Because this is how insurance is calculated. Right? Totally. Yeah. So, look, the premiums are very affordable for younger clients, to put good levels of cover in place. As you get older and that risk profile changes,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n19:40\r\nthen that is reflected in the premium structure.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n19:45\r\nBut there are a couple of approaches to this. So one, if I go back to the review, it's about managing the levels of cover that are in place because we don't wanna have you over insured and overpaying for premiums.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n19:56\r\nAnd then the second option is we can take quite a long term approach as to how we wanna structure the premiums on the policy.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n20:03\r\nAnd a lot of people just think that there's only one, and that's what we refer to as a rate for age premium. So that's gonna be each year, the premiums are calculated that based on your age, and as you get older, which we can't control,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n20:15\r\nthat's gonna start to, in turn, increase the premiums.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n20:19\r\nOr we can take more of a long term strategy and use something called a level premium, which is kind of like a fixed mortgage rate where we fix in a fixed monthly premium for a defined amount of cover over a fixed term, and, typically, that's to the age 70 or 80. And we know that we're basically gonna lock that level of cover in at a known quantity each month until you turn 70 years old. Yeah. So while it might work out to be more expensive short term, the savings over that term of the policy are substantial.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n20:51\r\nIt's just about making sure that it's gonna be financially affordable for each client, which is a big part to our conversation, and that it fits in with what their long term objectives are Yeah. In regards to their insurance position.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n21:03\r\nIn bit of a tangent. So I'm fairly sure every time I go and see my old man, he tells me how, his life insurance is getting more expensive because he's getting older, and he's like, you you could buy it off me. And so, like, that that's still a thing. People still do that. Yep. Look. It it's a pretty challenging conversation for people to have, and it's kind of taking a bet on mom and dad that at some point in time, they're they're gonna pass away, which is a sad reality, but we are seeing that more commonly happen where children will start to pay for their parents' life insurance policies because they are gonna be the beneficiary. So\r\n\r\nYou\r\n21:36\r\nwe don't see it a lot, but it certainly is happening.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n21:39\r\nAnd so in that position, do they like, would I just start paying his insurance on his behalf and I get something in writing to say, should he die, that that money, those funds don't go to the estate. They go directly to I become the policyholder. Sure. So there's a couple of different ways that we can set that up. So either we can nominate a specified beneficiary,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n21:58\r\nor you might even become a policy owner on your dad's life insurance policy, which means that you're paying the premium. But if in turn, if he passes away, you can speak to the insurance company, and those funds will be paid directly out to you. Yeah. Wow. Because I guess then the\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n22:12\r\nthe insurer is not gonna that they'd rather probably be paid. Right? But,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n22:15\r\nif he cancels that, then, basically, that's like, it's gone. Yeah. So in New Zealand, we only have something called term life insurance, which is effectively a yearly renewable policy,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n22:26\r\nand it's a fixed amount of cover for for set amounts of premium. But at the end of the policy or when you choose to cancel it or make significant adjustments to it, that becomes the end of it.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n22:37\r\nWe used to have these benefits called how whole of life or endowment policies,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n22:43\r\nwhere they're a combination of life insurance and also investments.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n22:47\r\nBut, ultimately, we didn't have the scale in our population to make them work.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n22:51\r\nCountries like China and India have they've proven to be unbelievably\r\n\r\nYou\r\n22:55\r\nsuccessful because they can just get the people into it and get a bigger pool of funds working for the policyholders.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n23:01\r\nYeah.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n23:02\r\nInteresting. Alright. Maybe I have to have a serious conversation with my dad. He might even be watching. I'm I'm not sure if he's joking or not, but, yeah, I wasn't even sure if it's still actually doable. But Yeah. Better watch out then.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n23:12\r\nYeah. Yeah. I have to go and see what it costs them. Hey. So what's the split in between the the types of, people that you're dealing with in terms of the type of insurance that they are, you know, getting support,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n23:23\r\nfrom you to put in place? In terms of the age demographic or the program? Yeah. Even the type. So because I know you probably do some in the business space as well, right, which we can get to, but is it predominantly,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n23:33\r\nlike, life income protection\r\n\r\nYou\r\n23:35\r\nat those two spots or or even, you know, first time buyers, etcetera? Yeah. So I think particularly for new clients for insurance, it's really important to discuss all benefits, and some might not be relevant to their particular position, but that can evolve over time, and at least they've got an understanding of how those might fit in.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n23:52\r\nCertainly, with my clients, they would always have life and trauma insurance as an absolute minimum foundation\r\n\r\nYou\r\n23:59\r\nplan.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n24:00\r\nMedical insurance is a good cornerstone to have in that because some of the medical costs in New Zealand are starting to skyrocket. Yeah. I think that problem's gonna compound,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n24:09\r\nin the years to come.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n24:11\r\nBut, typically, as my clients are typically first home buyers or they're going through a refinance process,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n24:17\r\nthey will always have mortgage repayment or income protection in place. And it's it's case by case dependent depending on what they do for work and how their finances are structured as to what's actually gonna be appropriate for them. Well, on that, there's a lot of chat at the moment about the cost of insurance increasing, and I think people are feeling it. What's driving that cost of,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n24:37\r\ninsurance increase? Well, in the life insurance space, over the last couple of years,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n24:41\r\none of our big hurdles has been the inflation rates have been so high. So the policies are typically increasing as you you get a year older, but they're also increasing with inflation.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n24:52\r\nSo that inflation rate is impacting premiums, and it's also increasing the sum insured value of the policies.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n24:59\r\nSo that's to make sure that a policy that was taken out twenty years ago is actually staying relative to the cost of a dollar\r\n\r\nYou\r\n25:06\r\ninto the future.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n25:08\r\nSo that's certainly been a big stumbling block for for people over the last couple of years.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n25:13\r\nBut once again, in that review process, you can actually discuss with your adviser declining that inflation readjustment, which can help manage some of that premium change on a year to year basis. And you don't need to decline it forever. You might do it this year. You might skip it for a couple of years and then decline it again.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n25:30\r\nBut, really, it depends on what your situation is.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n25:34\r\nFor most people, though, that have got maybe slightly older kids and their debt's reducing and their financial position's getting stronger, they might not have a need for that life insurance policy to keep increasing over time as well. So that's where we might permanently turn that inflation readjustment off.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n25:50\r\nI see. So that's basically saying let let's say, like, I when I took out life insurance, it was $200,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n25:55\r\nbut that was probably over ten years ago. So I want that to be adjusting to become adjusted for inflation so that it's keeping up with that. So I'm in Correct. Three I'm actually insuring myself for 330,000,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n26:07\r\nfor instance. Correct. So it's all relative. New Zealand. Yeah.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n26:11\r\nAnd and I think one of the other big components that we're seeing is that, you know, particularly if we look in the medical insurance space, we're starting to see a huge increase in claims starting to flow through across all providers here.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n26:23\r\nAnd, you know, the reality is we're pretty fortunate in New Zealand with our public health system,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n26:28\r\nand they're very well set up for acute related conditions, and I refer to things like heart attacks and strokes.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n26:34\r\nBut for nonlife\r\n\r\nYou\r\n26:36\r\nthreatening conditions, whether it's hip replacements and\r\n\r\nYou\r\n26:40\r\nevents like that,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n26:41\r\nit's all severity based, and it's a waiting list, and there's just an unknown timeline to that. And people are starting to get frustrated with it, and the timelines are actually getting blown out. So we've seen more and more people take out private medical insurance,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n26:55\r\nwhich in turn is putting more pressure on the private world.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n26:59\r\nAnd\r\n\r\nYou\r\n26:59\r\nin turn, some of those prices are starting to increase from those specialists, and surgical costs are increasing.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n27:05\r\nSo it's a compounding effect as as the pressure gets put into the private sector.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n27:11\r\nIn turn, that's gonna see the premium start to increase. I wonder if we could see a time where maybe people paying for their own types of of insurance that are then taking\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n27:21\r\nthe pressure off of the public health system could then be,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n27:25\r\nyou know, tax incentivized so that becomes a tax deductible expense. I'm probably hoping for something that Yeah. Never gonna happen. But you know what I mean? Like, people are kind of insuring themselves to go, okay. Well, I don't wanna have to wait. Mhmm. So I wanna be able to go private. And if they've got the means so they can afford to, then they aren't gonna use the public health system. So then they're both paying tax and then paying an insurance, so they don't need to use it.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n27:46\r\nI wonder It's a it's a great pipe dream, and we're certainly supported in our world.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n27:51\r\nI mean, we start to see elements of that creep in, you know, like, for all self employed people who are paying ACC levies, there are actually ways to adjust how much is paid to ACC.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n28:01\r\nAnd with some of those savings, it can offset the cost of putting in far more comprehensive income protection, mortgage repayment benefits to cover the same risk that ACC would have. But you'll also have the benefit of covering health conditions, which there's not a lot of financial support for through the public sector.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n28:18\r\nSo,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n28:19\r\nlook, it could happen.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n28:21\r\nCertainly. Yeah. Probably not. Let's start another poll, get some signatures, and see how we go. But,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n28:27\r\nlook, it it would be great to see initiatives like that come through, but it's certainly nothing I'm familiar with at the moment. I don't think it's on the radar for the insurers to be driving it at this stage. Yeah. But I guess what you're saying as well is that as more people have been thought, okay. I can pay for this insurance myself, then they're needing to use those claims, and then that's just putting more people into the private space as well, which is then driving up demand and therefore price too. Yeah. So, I mean, if we if we look at one of the health insurers that we work with, in July,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n28:54\r\ntheir claims\r\n\r\nYou\r\n28:55\r\nstats were up. They had 30% more claims than their previous month on record. And so\r\n\r\nYou\r\n29:01\r\nin turn, that's just a great signal that the private sector's getting more and more use.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n29:07\r\nYeah. More and more claims are getting paid. So this particular provider had about 260,000\r\n\r\nYou\r\n29:13\r\nclaims in the '23\r\n\r\nYou\r\n29:15\r\nfinancial year. Sheesh.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n29:17\r\nYeah. So it's massive. Yeah.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n29:20\r\nAnd and they're they're\r\n\r\nYou\r\n29:22\r\ngood scale size insurer, but there are other bigger providers out there that have seen far greater levels of of claim volume flow through.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n29:30\r\nBeat the power game with Power Shop. If you wanna get ahead with your money, you need to get ahead with your bills. Back in the day, I used to get a little thrill when a power bill would arrive in the mail and show that I was in credit. The thrill of being ahead of your bills is a feeling money can't buy. Power shop is in the business of delivering that feeling. They do things differently giving you the insight and control over your bill to stay ahead. With Power shop, you can see what you're using and purchase power packs which are discounted packs of power ahead of time. This enables you to plan ahead and pay for power when it suits you. All in all, being with PowerShot means you're informed and empowered to take control of your power bill. So what are you waiting for? Take charge of your dollars, kilowatts, and cents by switching to PowerShot. As a bonus, you can choose between a $150\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n30:17\r\ncredit or free weekends when you sign up. To see how much you could save, visit powershop.co.nzed\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n30:22\r\nand get a savings estimate simply by uploading a recent electricity bill. Talk to us about the mental health piece that you mentioned before in terms of people being able to claim for that. Like, how how is that coming about? Yeah. So, look, it's a it's a complicated one.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n30:37\r\nBut if we look at sort of short term events where we might be able to work for things like burnout or isolated stress,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n30:44\r\nthat's when we start to lean on benefits like income protection and mortgage repayment because it's recognizing that you're out of work due to medical reasons, and we're gonna make sure that there's continuing cash flow coming through in that particular situation.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n30:57\r\nFor very advanced conditions,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n31:00\r\nwhere you might permanently be taken out of the workplace,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n31:03\r\nthat's where the total and permanent disability benefit can come through and support you with a big lump sum pain payment to help support that transition\r\n\r\nYou\r\n31:12\r\nand sort of support you longer term.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n31:15\r\nThe health insurers in the market are doing what they can. Personally, I feel like there's work to be done by the insurers in this space, but we are starting to see some positive movement from someone health health insurance as a benefit offering sort of 2 and a half thousand dollars worth of\r\n\r\nYou\r\n31:32\r\npsychiatric support.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n31:34\r\nWe're starting to see some of the bigger insurers in the marketplace\r\n\r\nYou\r\n31:37\r\nreally drive wellness,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n31:39\r\nprograms as part of their insurance offering to sort of better support their clients, making sure they're staying active, doing their annual health checks, and and ultimately just keeping better tabs on their overall well-being. So\r\n\r\nYou\r\n31:52\r\nit's a slow it's a slow moving tide that we've gotta ride, but there is work to be done in that space.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n31:57\r\nSo if people have genuine mental health issues and they know that they've got forms of insurance, they should probably be reaching out to their adviser and saying, hey. Absolutely. Yeah. Like, I mean, we always encourage our clients to contact us\r\n\r\nYou\r\n32:09\r\nwhether they think that there's a claimable event or not.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n32:12\r\nAnd quite often,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n32:14\r\nthere have been cases where I've had calls from people and they go, look, it's probably nothing, but, you know, this little event's popped up. And I go, well, send me through this information. There's a process that needs to be followed, but let's explore it. You know? Like, insurance is there to be used, and we encourage our clients to use it. Because it's no real work for us to try and support our clients at that point in time. And I've got, you know, couple of examples where I've had those conversations with clients, and they've\r\n\r\nYou\r\n32:41\r\nyou know, one example is a client who had a grade four skin melanoma cut out of his neck, and it was a very minor\r\n\r\nYou\r\n32:47\r\nprocedure to have it removed.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n32:49\r\nBut because of the information that we sort of guided them to get, we went from going,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n32:55\r\nlet's just cover the cost of the medical procedure, to him actually having a full trauma insurance payment. And he didn't think that he was gonna get anything from it. In fact, he didn't even think he could claim for the medical procedure. So Yeah. Sometimes you just don't know what you don't know.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n33:08\r\nMhmm. I've had instances where we've\r\n\r\nYou\r\n33:11\r\nhad reviews with clients and, you know, we ask them how their health's been and what's been happening in this sort of world, and, you know, you'll speak to a husband and wife. I can think of one story quite clearly in my head where\r\n\r\nYou\r\n33:24\r\na good New Zealand bloke said, oh, nothing's wrong, and I'm still ten foot tall and bulletproof even though I'm 50. And Yeah. I remember his wife just booting him under the table and said, what are you talking about? You had prostate cancer last year. I was like, why didn't you contact us? And they're like, oh, we didn't think it was serious enough. We didn't think we could claim. So, well, let's get some, you know, backdated information. Let's run through the process, and sure enough, we had a trauma insurance payment paid for him.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n33:51\r\nMaybe a little bit late, but better late than never, and the timing worked out well for his daughter because he funded their wedding as a result of getting the payment. So,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n33:59\r\nyeah, no. That that was a good thing to be part of. Then. Yeah. And so is there any general rules for people that do have insurance to reach out to their advisers or their insurance companies\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n34:09\r\nto remind them, like, if that happens, I probably need to to tell them?\r\n\r\nYou\r\n34:13\r\nSo, look, we we certainly try and stay in regular communication with our clients, and we ask those questions as part of the annual review survey that gets sent out. But I would just encourage people to reach out to their advisers and just say, hey. Look. This has happened.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n34:27\r\nWhat are my options? And it might be that it might be too early on in the process, but we can give you some guidance on what not might need to be captured to support a future claim and things to be aware of throughout that process. Even who had broken bones potentially for some people with the type of cover they have. Absolutely. Yeah. So they can be isolated payments,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n34:46\r\nmade to recognize\r\n\r\nYou\r\n34:48\r\nbroken bones and fractures. So, you know, I think you have to be a bit careful with insurance that you can cover absolutely everything under the sun, and you can cover yourself up to the eyeballs. And I'm really honest with this, but you actually need to pair it back and go, this is plan b sort of stuff. We don't wanna set it up so it's gonna financially\r\n\r\nYou\r\n35:07\r\nenrich you. We're just making sure that financially, you're still gonna be in a really good place even if something unexpected\r\n\r\nYou\r\n35:14\r\narises. So as I said earlier, you know, I always run a pragmatic approach to putting the levels of cover in place that I do for my clients because I don't wanna overcomplicate it, and I don't want them paying too much. And how often should people be reviewing this? Is it, you know, as simple as annually, or are we trying to remind people a bit like a will, you know, if you're having kids or you're getting married or something happens, like major events you wanna be reaching out? Yeah. Look. It it's certainly an annual basis.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n35:41\r\nAt a minimum, I would encourage.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n35:44\r\nNot enough, in my view, changes over a six month period of time to dictate having a review at that stage.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n35:51\r\nAnd it might even be that clients just don't wanna engage with us for a couple of years because they just don't feel enough has shifted. You know? They've set up a brand new mortgage. They've paid down $20,000\r\n\r\nYou\r\n36:01\r\na debt. They don't see there to be enough value in adjusting the levels of cover at that stage.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n36:06\r\nBut I do say to people as well as, you know, it's it's an open line of communication. You know? Keep us in the loop. We wanna hear about your promotions. We wanna hear about kids coming onto the scene. You know? Like, we're excited for you. You know? We wanna be part of the journey, and let us sort of guide you on what ensure what that means on the insurance side of things. Do we need to increase? Do we need to decrease?\r\n\r\nYou\r\n36:26\r\nBecause\r\n\r\nYou\r\n36:28\r\nwe don't want to always just keep putting more cover in place, and there's variables that'll happen for some people, and this certainly doesn't apply to everybody, but they might have received an unexpected inheritance or there might have been some other sort of windfall that has come through.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n36:43\r\nYou probably don't need as much insurance anymore because you've been able to bolster your own personal position,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n36:48\r\nand Yeah. Your risk has been decreased.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n36:51\r\nI suppose you could have an an inheritance, for instance, and all of a sudden that completely changes your need for different types of insurance. 100%. Yeah. So\r\n\r\nYou\r\n37:00\r\neverything's an evolving picture, and insurance isn't a static thing. It's certainly not a sit and forget.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n37:06\r\nYou know, just engage with your advisers. I think, for the most part, we're all pretty good sort of people, and and we are just genuinely there to help you and guide you on something that you're probably not an expert in. And and that's where the trap, I think, it falls in that robo advice as people have gone on think that they've got what they actually needed, but there are some shortfalls, and that's what we need to guide them on. Do you ever end up reviewing some of that robo advice and then Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Have a little bit of time. We enjoy it. Yeah. And it's probably quite similar to some of the, old bank teller advice that was given in the insurance space. You know? Yeah. Ultimately, they were bankers. They weren't insurance advisers. They just didn't understand it in a similar way to a specialist in that field. And quite often, they've been sold lower quality benefits.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n37:52\r\nSo\r\n\r\nYou\r\n37:54\r\npolicies that might not cover a certain amount of conditions or the same level of conditions as some of the more, you know, what I'd refer to as retail insurers might cover.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n38:03\r\nThe levels of cover can be completely out of kilter with what somebody actually wanted.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n38:08\r\nSo\r\n\r\nYou\r\n38:09\r\nthe robo advice, the bank advice, it's always been a bit tricky, and we we certainly enjoy reviewing those policies and putting people back on on the path of what they actually need. Nice. So if anyone's ever had robo advice or basically over the counter\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n38:22\r\nbanking advice in the insurance space, probably much like KiwiSaver as well, probably worth\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n38:27\r\ngetting an adviser just to have a look at it. You don't even have to sign on, but, gee, wouldn't you rather know? Absolutely. And there's no cost to the client to engage with an adviser\r\n\r\nYou\r\n38:36\r\nto get some initial advice. Yeah.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n38:39\r\nSo we will, you know, gladly run through the process. Ultimately,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n38:43\r\nwe are paid by the insurance company on the completion of a policy, so there's no additional cost to you.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n38:49\r\nWe're not gonna send you out some hidden invoice that we're not disclosing. It's it's not the aim of the game. I think in your space, you even have to declare what you're potentially making on a policy. Right? So we're completely transparent on the process, and, you know, we don't hide\r\n\r\nYou\r\n39:03\r\nwhat what's available to us.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n39:05\r\nBut\r\n\r\nYou\r\n39:06\r\nit's a start of a good faith relationship with your adviser with an insurance company. So why not be transparent right from the outset so everybody knows what the playing field is? Yeah. Going back to what you're saying before, mate, about the cost of health increasing. So\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n39:20\r\nbecause I think well, yeah, you'd be better to answer this. Do you think that\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n39:25\r\na lot of New Zealanders don't actually realize how expensive an operation is or a medical procedure even once you start layering layering in an anesthetist,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n39:34\r\nand just how expensive those people are Yeah. And just a bit blase of, like, oh, well, she'll be right. Yeah. I think there's there's probably a lot of misconception, and and some of that might be driven by the fact that we do have a good public system and it has been so reliable for such a long time. But I think people's eyes are starting to open to what the true expenses\r\n\r\nYou\r\n39:53\r\nassociated to some of these procedures are now. Yeah. And we've gotta look past just\r\n\r\nYou\r\n39:58\r\nsurgical expenses. There are other unrelated costs, particularly in that cancer space around getting really good access to nonpharmac\r\n\r\nYou\r\n40:05\r\nregulated medicines that can really support\r\n\r\nYou\r\n40:08\r\npostoperative care, extend quality of life. But those drugs don't have any government subsidy at the moment. They're often privately funded,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n40:17\r\nand those drugs can be wildly expensive in some cases. And Yeah. You know, I've had clients who have needed them. They've been as much as $10,000\r\n\r\nYou\r\n40:24\r\na week. So Wow. Just financially unmanageable\r\n\r\nYou\r\n40:27\r\nfor people who don't have these plans in place, and it's those people who are then having to sell the family home and sell the cars to try and fund treatment to actually prolong their life, which is horrible to see. Yeah. That's why it's like anything we hope that it's not gonna happen to us, but, you know, this is what this whole space is designed to do is derisk it if it does happen to us. Yeah. Absolutely. And, you know, if we if we were specifically referred to that trauma benefit,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n40:54\r\nlike, we know that the average male actually claims at age 42 and the average female claims at 44. So\r\n\r\nYou\r\n41:01\r\nsome of these claim points aren't, you know, just for our sort of parents' generation, the 50, 60 year olds and older out there. It's it's happening to all age spectrums.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n41:12\r\nYeah. Last year, I had a claim for a three year old who was having some\r\n\r\nYou\r\n41:16\r\nserious complications with respiratory issues and had to spend an extended period of time in intensive care.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n41:22\r\nBut, you know, at nearly 40 now myself, we're starting to see our friends get impacted by them. I've had a friend of mine who's at 38\r\n\r\nYou\r\n41:30\r\nwho had an\r\n\r\nYou\r\n41:32\r\na stroke, and that potentially was gonna take him out of work for the rest of his life. So amazing to sort of see how these events are starting to creep into\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n41:42\r\nall wage spans. I suppose when we're in our early twenties, we're like, ah, no. Don't need to worry about that stuff. Just like anything. Don't need to worry about retirement.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n41:49\r\nNothing. Life's good. Yeah. Yeah. And then it starts to creep on you up on you real quick. Yeah. It does. And it becomes more real when you've got people who become financially reliant on you, whether it's a partner, whether it's children,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n42:01\r\nwhether it's\r\n\r\nYou\r\n42:05\r\nthe bank. Yeah. Yeah. Life does get complicated, so we wanna try and take some of that complication out of it and put in protection.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n42:10\r\nI was quite lucky. I had a employer and boss that sort of,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n42:14\r\npointed me in the direction of learning about insurance at a younger age, and\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n42:19\r\nI've just always had it since my my early twenties and then got to a stage where I didn't have property. So I didn't even really need it, but\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n42:26\r\nI could then make the decision of do I want to to keep this, and it wasn't the sort of amount of money that I'm like, nah. Like, I just purely, you know, can't afford this. But I'd imagine there's probably some people out there that go, well, I don't wanna pay that because then they,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n42:39\r\nyou know, wanna try and save it themselves or do that sort of thing\r\n\r\nYou\r\n42:44\r\nself insure. Yeah. It's self insuring as as a thing, and, you know, I'm not opposed to it, but it's about having things in balance.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n42:51\r\nBut going back to your earlier point there, you know, we're starting to see more and more corporates and bigger businesses start to implement these life insurance and medical insurance options for their staff.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n43:01\r\nAnd for those businesses, it's a great retention tool for being able to,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n43:06\r\nkeep\r\n\r\nYou\r\n43:07\r\nreally loyal staff to them. It attracts new people into their businesses as well.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n43:13\r\nAnd, fundamentally, I think that that starts educating\r\n\r\nYou\r\n43:16\r\nyounger people coming through because we're ultimately an underinsured\r\n\r\nYou\r\n43:20\r\nmarket.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n43:20\r\nAnd, you know As a nation? As a nation. And, like, you know, my parents certainly didn't educate me on the value of life insurance, something that I learned as time went by. And I've obviously chosen it now as my career and and and ultimately where my passion lies. But Yeah.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n43:35\r\nThe exposure to this\r\n\r\nYou\r\n43:37\r\nis pretty minimal. Like, unless somebody's told you to go and take it out, and typically it was the bank when you got your first mortgage,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n43:44\r\nup to from age zero to that point, there's nobody else going, time to take out some life insurance or get income protection in place. So,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n43:52\r\nI think that the corporates and bigger businesses in the market do have a responsibility\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n43:56\r\nto their staff to be putting these benefits in place. And is that something you do? So say an employer reaches out to you and says, hey. Can you come and educate our team on some of these types of insurance? You go into into businesses and give them a hand? Yeah. Absolutely. So quite often, we'll actually try and run sort of financial programs that we're working with those businesses.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n44:14\r\nWe can talk about mortgages, and we get in brokers to discuss that. We get in KiwiSaver specialist to make sure that they're getting the best value out of long term retirement savings, and then we bring in an insurance conversation.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n44:25\r\nAnd whether that's gonna be individual policies that are managed directly with, you know, new clients or if it's with the business itself to put in layers to their offering to staff. Yeah. Yeah. But it's absolutely a space that we operate in and and really enjoy working in. So if you, say that we're under insured as a nation, any data on, like, percentage of kiwis that are covered versus other countries and stuff like that? Yeah. So if if we look at one of the biggest insurance companies in the market who who currently sort of owns about 45%\r\n\r\nYou\r\n44:54\r\nof market share,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n44:56\r\nthey've got about 800,000\r\n\r\nYou\r\n44:57\r\npolicies in place.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n44:59\r\nWow. So\r\n\r\nYou\r\n45:01\r\nwe could sort of say that the other four main insurance companies\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n45:05\r\nwould equate to sort of a similar value. So we could say there's around sort of a million and a half at an estimate policies in in the market at the moment. Yeah. And is that across, like, health life, income protection, etcetera. When you talk about health insurance, is that, you know, that seems to be really popular at the moment around, I pay for x y z insurance, and I can get a massage, and I can have my teeth covered as well once a year and what whatnot. Is that health insurance? Yeah. Absolutely. So,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n45:30\r\nyou know, once again, having a pragmatic approach, particularly with medical insurance, there are a lot of add ons that can typically go into those policies, and you do need to weigh up if it's the right add on for you or if we're mainly\r\n\r\nYou\r\n45:43\r\nfocusing the plan around costs that are gonna be financially unmanageable.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n45:47\r\nYeah. But, certainly, as it as we talked about before, there are these wellness programs coming out by insurers that are, you know, really motivating people to stay active, be proactive about their health, get annual health checks. And if you're a part of those programs, they're amazing. They they actually give you discounts on your insurance premiums. And the more active that you are and the more engaged that you are, the more discount you can actually add to your policy. And in turn, they'll start to give you vouchers, whether that's for movie tickets or groceries. So you can actually get your insurance policy something that is a necessity,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n46:19\r\nactually subsidizing other parts of your life too. So Yeah. It's a great program. It's such an interesting space there because there's so many moving parts. And just reminded the conversation,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n46:28\r\nthat we've had previously where you said to me, oh, you could increase your excess and then that's gonna decrease your premium. So excess being if the insurance is to be claimed that you are having to let go of a lump sum of money, but then your insurance payments, the premium part is actually decreasing.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n46:45\r\nRight? Yeah. And I think it's probably\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n46:47\r\nagain, it's one of those things that you then have to think about because you might get yourself to a point where you're financially sweet to cover a higher amount of excess,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n46:55\r\nand then you don't need to be paying the same level of premium. Correct. Yeah. So it's it's all about finding out what the balance is for an individual. Yeah. But, you know, I'm very pro on having high levels high level excesses\r\n\r\nYou\r\n47:07\r\nbecause we wanna reduce the premiums while you're not using it, but we just need to be make sure that you're actually in a comfortable position to manage the Yeah. Thousand, $2,000 excess when that procedure pops up.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n47:19\r\nAnd have you noticed people,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n47:22\r\ncanceling their insurance or hearing that in in the industry with just how tricky it's been out there financially?\r\n\r\nYou\r\n47:28\r\nLook. There's there's a lot of hurt out there at the moment, and and we do we're exposed to some of them. But, actually, during these tough times, people will actually put more value in their insurance.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n47:40\r\nSo\r\n\r\nYou\r\n47:42\r\nwhat what the better strategy is to work with your adviser to see if there are ways of potentially suspending parts of the policy,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n47:49\r\ngoing premium holidays, and actually trying to find work around so you can still retain the policy.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n47:54\r\nMaybe it's just a matter of going, actually, our situation's changed, and we don't need the same levels of cover. Can we look to review it and adjust that? And that's the way that we manage premiums so we can retain it and hold on to it for the future.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n48:06\r\nBecause the risk is,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n48:08\r\npotentially, if you're in your forties or fifties and you go to cancel it, and then the economic times get better for you and you're back in secure jobs and steady income and you go, let's take the policy out again, well, you might have had a whole lot of health conditions that have popped up since you originally took out that policy\r\n\r\nYou\r\n48:24\r\nthat then limits your ability to take the policy out again in the future. So you need to be very mindful\r\n\r\nYou\r\n48:30\r\nwhen you are making big decisions like canceling a policy because they're permanent.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n48:35\r\nYeah. So alterations are certainly a better approach. Yeah. So let's, take out a policy and I'm 20 right, and then all of a sudden, 28, I have a bit of a back issue, but I cancel my insurance.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n48:46\r\nProbably by the time I'm at 32, when I go, right, I can afford to do it again, I'm gonna be excluded for things around my back because I then have to disclose that I've had that. That's right. And and, you know, it's a back example. That's the number one claimant for income protection policy. So,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n49:02\r\nyou you do need to be cautious of, as I say, those cancellations.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n49:06\r\nBut, equally,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n49:07\r\nanother way is to look at a policy that might have been in place for a number of years. Has it actually got exclusions on it or premium loadings that can now be reviewed based on your health profile\r\n\r\nYou\r\n49:18\r\nimproving. Like, they're not\r\n\r\nYou\r\n49:20\r\na permanent\r\n\r\nYou\r\n49:21\r\nfixture. There are ways that we can review it. Might even be you need to change provider to have it reconsidered, which is sort of, once again, plan b in that space. But there's always different angles that can be played, and just getting some good advice around it is is a really smart option. This is such a deep,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n49:39\r\nspace to try and figure out yourself. Right? Yeah. Look. If it's not the language that you're used to speaking in, you can see how people get lost, and that's why we try and take our time on on our process.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n49:51\r\nI remember when I first started in the industry, it was we meet once, we gather some information, we give you the recommendations, and here's the applications.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n49:58\r\nI mean, it's it's oversimplifying it a little, but, certainly, now I say to people, look. If this takes two meetings or if it takes 10 meetings, it doesn't matter. I've got all the time. We just need to make sure that you're comfortable with what goes in place. Because, ultimately, the adviser's not the one that's paying the premiums, but they're also not the beneficiary of that policy. So we need to make sure that everybody's comfortable with the plan that's going in place.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n50:21\r\nWhat word of warning would you have for those people who think, right, I'm not gonna pay my insurance, and I'm gonna put that money aside myself. And and is it really worth it? It's too or a little bit too expensive now.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n50:33\r\nLook. I think it's a really good plan if you can keep putting that money aside, and you don't have any health issues, and you're thirty, forty years down the track, and your little pot's no longer a little pot. It's a big pot of money, and and and that sort of serves you better for retirement. But it's it's more of the what if factor, and that's why I say run a pragmatic approach to what levels go in place to try and manage those premiums and just be a bit sensible about what you're doing from an insurance standpoint because\r\n\r\nYou\r\n51:00\r\nnot everybody's got the money to be able to financially support themselves for the rest of their life if they're out of work tomorrow, and they don't necessarily have the family support to make that happen either. So who's gonna look after you? What's your life gonna look like if you don't have a plan b in place?\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n51:15\r\nIt's I can see why people get there because they're looking for a way to cut some costs out of their life, or they learn, oh, yeah. I heard that insurance companies just take that money and they invest it themselves, and that's what they do. But,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n51:27\r\nlike, what happens if you do die or get cancer or something like that in that first two years or even probably like the first ten? You've got to run some math on okay. Just doesn't work. Yeah. I was gonna say, how many people do you actually see come up with that strategy and go, you know what? And then come back to you and go,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n51:42\r\nJohnny, guess what? I did cancel that in beautiful. I just got an,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n51:45\r\ncancer diagnosis, but fuck you, mate. I've got $300 stacked aside. Like, I'd imagine most people would be like, I'm gonna build a deck. I'm gonna do x, y, zed, and wouldn't actually leave it there. Yeah. Look. I think for most people, they don't have the discipline of actually putting that money into an investment and then seeing it through for it to become tangible. So,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n52:03\r\neverything in balance. And if your approach is to self insure some of it, great. You know? Don't take out something you don't need,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n52:11\r\nbut think about what the downside risk is. Can you put a smaller amount of cover in place and have it only there for ten years while you're still building that investment account? And in ten years' time, let's reassess it. If you don't need it, let's cancel it. Like, let let's be pragmatic about it. No. So what you're basically saying is, like, it's you don't have to go the full hog, and there could be there's different options where, you know, you might take one policy compared to three, etcetera, and then just keep adjusting as you go. Yeah. And it might be that you run a staged approach to it.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n52:40\r\nSo, you know, I appreciate particularly with clients moving into their first home, like budgets are put under pressure, and then you've got all your moving costs and setup costs. So putting the insurance,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n52:50\r\npiece into the budget can be very challenging for people. I get that.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n52:55\r\nBut look at where the support would potentially be for you. Like, we do still have the public system, so that is your fallback in that particular space. But if you're out of work, if you've been face faced with a major health condition,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n53:07\r\nfinancially, how are you gonna manage that? Perhaps short term, let's just get some lower levels of life cover in place. Let's put in a bit of trauma cover so we at least know you've got something.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n53:17\r\nAnd if that day does come along, at least you're gonna have some financial breathing space before you're forced to sell the property, before you're selling off your car and all the toys that you might have in the background. Yeah.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n53:28\r\nBecause if you're forced into selling a property, you're not gonna get a premium for it. Murphy's Law will say it's a bad market, and it's a bad time to sell the property. Factor in real estate fees, and all of a sudden, if you'd only recently bought that house, you're not even getting your deposit money back. You've just derisked it because you paid the bank off, but you actually haven't had any real capital that's gonna support you at that point in time. And what about with the introduction of KiwiSaver and KiwiSaver getting a bit larger? Are that some of the conversations you've having with older clients or clients that have gone through that journey where they go, you know what, Johnny? We don't actually need some of these policies anymore because we've got a pot of 600 g sitting there in KiwiSaver or an investment fund and things like that. Yeah. Absolutely. And and great that we love seeing that, you know, where we can minimize insurance and be practical about it. That's what we're very pro on.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n54:14\r\nWhere we need to be a bit mindful is where they're saying that they've got a lot of wealth tied up and they're in assets then aren't overly liquid.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n54:22\r\nYeah. Property. Work property. Yeah. But even even investments to the most part, like, there can be some pretty serious break costs, or you might not get a very good return if you're having to pull that money out in a short time frame. It might still be that it's quite practical and sensible to have a level of insurance in place so you know that you've always got,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n54:40\r\nyou know, your, plan b there while you're actually liquidating some of those assets on a timeline that realizes the most value out of them. Yeah. It's interesting. I'd imagine that probably some people, once they get to that stage, they would see the cost of some of these policies and go, you know what? It's actually not that bad. I'm just gonna continue to pay it, and then they sort of end up accumulating more wealth if it's triggered. Yeah. And, like, I've got a client who's\r\n\r\nYou\r\n55:04\r\nexceptionally wealthy. They've got a huge amount of assets that sit in the background, but he know his he knows his household running expenses are massive. Yeah. And it's gonna take a long time for his wife and children to get access to his assets by the time they've gone through the courts and managed through the wills and trusts and all the complications involved in that. So he still keeps a million dollar life insurance policy, and it's a nominal cost for him to know that his wife's gonna have immediate access to funds\r\n\r\nYou\r\n55:30\r\nwhile she works through that process to get the as assets transferred to her.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n55:34\r\nDifferent different level of thinking, isn't it? Different level of thinking, and it's all proportionate to people's positions, though. And it's something you've gotta remind yourself of as an adviser is everybody's different. Everybody's needs are different. So there's no one size fits all approach. And that's the key for people to actually engage with the space and realize it's it doesn't need to be scary or it doesn't need to be slimy or salesy or whatever they've preconceived ideas be. It's basically,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n55:59\r\nI need help understanding my situation from somebody who has the expertise. Yeah. Like, we're not gonna ever sit there and say that you're wrong, but we might guide you on saying, hey. Look. I get the logic of trying to manage premium removing these particular benefits, but we still need to keep this in as a base plan. What would you say to those people who are listening and are thinking about maybe getting into the insurance industry for a career? Yeah. Look. You're likely probably a careers adviser in the space now after a decade. Well, maybe give me a call because we're always looking for good staff members. So,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n56:29\r\nbut, look, it it's a great industry\r\n\r\nYou\r\n56:31\r\nto join. It's very rewarding.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n56:34\r\nYeah. So, look, I I would sort of welcome people into the industry. I we welcome advisers. I feel like there aren't enough of us to go around. We need to be building out\r\n\r\nYou\r\n56:44\r\nour space and spreading the word wider and further.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n56:48\r\nBut it's a rewarding industry that you can build a business off the back of helping people. So it's a way that you can everybody can get what gets what they need. Before we go, mate, any gnarly stories or any still favorite stories from your your decade in the game?\r\n\r\nYou\r\n57:02\r\nWell,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n57:03\r\na story that I touched on earlier is\r\n\r\nYou\r\n57:07\r\nmy friend who had the stroke. It was a tricky situation. He'd actually been to a chiropractor and had a neck adjustment, and he had a very rare\r\n\r\nYou\r\n57:15\r\noutcome from that adjustment, which was a stroke. So he literally drove there, was taken to the, ambulance in a hospital afterwards,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n57:23\r\nBut this particular guy was sitting on some applications that we have been following up for about eighteen months, and he refers to it as the claim that cost him a million dollars because that was an increase that we were looking to make to a part of his policy.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n57:36\r\nFortunately, he already had some very good cover in place, so he was well supported.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n57:42\r\nBut, you know, while the conversation's live, you know, action it. Don't let it drag on too long Yeah. Is a key takeaway from that.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n57:51\r\nJust trying to think of some other good stories. It's always the ones in the media we see, right, where it's like someone cancels the policy and then three days later. I'd imagine that probably happens more than people realize, but\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n58:01\r\nit's just it's such a good story. But statistically\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n58:05\r\nwell, you know, such a good story to sell attention, but statistically,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n58:08\r\nthat probably, you know, happens quite often. Yeah. Look. Certainly, we encourage our clients who have been long standing clients of ours, and we've got very good personal relationships or or don't for that matter. But if they are looking to cancel their policies outright, we do encourage them to go and get a general health checkup with their GP. Go and run a set of bloods.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n58:27\r\nLook. The policy's gonna stay in place for maybe another month. You might have to manage another month's worth of premium, but it was worth it in case something\r\n\r\nYou\r\n58:34\r\ncame from that console Yeah. And and there was gonna actually be a claimable event or there were starting to be markers\r\n\r\nYou\r\n58:41\r\nthat might lead to there being a claimable event, you know, within a short timeline.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n58:45\r\nOh, you just scared the shit out of me going to the chiropractor the next time. Yeah.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n58:49\r\nWe didn't even really touch on the business side of things. So in terms of some of that cover, you I'm sure you mean you still do, like, quite a bit in that space for business owners? Yeah. So the conversation just changes from it being around individuals and families to it being individuals and their business partners. Yeah. And what we see in the business space is, you know, quite often,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n59:09\r\ncouple of mates have got together, they've built a business out of their back bedroom, and all of a sudden, that's turned into something that is worth quite a lot of money. But they don't personally have the available funds to manage a situation where the business partner passes away, and they're now in business with the wife or the husband, and all the wife or husband's now asking for their shares to be bought out at some sort of premium rate. Yeah. And so we try to manage that through insurance with\r\n\r\nYou\r\n59:35\r\nbenefits like life insurance and total and permanent disability cover.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n59:39\r\nAnd then there's also other ways that we can start to focus on business type clients where\r\n\r\nYou\r\n59:46\r\nthey might be key stakeholders in the business and vital to the operation.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n59:50\r\nWhat happens if they're taken out of work? How do we make sure that business is gonna keep running, and how are we gonna make sure it's financially supported?\r\n\r\nYou\r\n59:57\r\nAnd there's effectively income protection type policies for businesses that allow for locums to go in, work in the business, make sure it keeps operating, make sure everybody else stays employed and everything keeps ticking over in the similar sort of capacity\r\n\r\nYou\r\n60:11\r\nwhile one of those stakeholders is out of work focusing on their recovery program and until they get back. Definitely something that people that are in business with somebody else should probably be thinking about. Right? Because\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n60:23\r\nall of a sudden, they could find themselves in a position where they're now buying back the shares in the business that they helped build or borrowing against their property,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n60:31\r\nto to clear out the the spouse of the business partner and going, holy shit. How did all this happen all of a sudden? And and it's not always your intention to go into business with your business partner's spouse, right, or their children, and that can quite often become very complicated.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n60:45\r\nAnd then there's a different opinions, and it just means that the business fight value might actually rapidly\r\n\r\nYou\r\n60:51\r\ndecrease over time. So can a plan be created so if certain events are triggered, no one outcomes can be achieved, and then everybody's on the same program? You know, families are getting taken care of, business partners are being cared for,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n61:05\r\nand it's just a known quantity.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n61:07\r\nNice, mate. Well, who would have thought that insurance isn't as boring as accounting?\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n61:12\r\nAnd we can run through it out there quickly. Yeah. Awesome, mate. Thanks for having me in. Really appreciate it. So people wanna find you, Johnny. Where do they need to go if they need to get in touch?\r\n\r\nYou\r\n61:21\r\nLook. Best to look up our website, which is Insurance Market Collective.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n61:24\r\nReach out to me directly on Instagram. It's probably a good approach. Just johnny at winstone, all one word. Yeah. Hopefully, you can tag me at the end of this pod, mate. Yeah. No worries.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n61:34\r\nBut yeah. LinkedIn.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n61:35\r\nLinkedIn is always a good approach to.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n61:37\r\nSo yeah. And email address?\r\n\r\nYou\r\n61:40\r\nJust j.winstone@insurance-market.co.nz.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n61:45\r\nCool. I'll chuck some details into the show notes if people do need help in this space.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n61:50\r\nThanks again, mate. And I'm sure we'll have to, kick around some of these other topics because it's a it's a very big space and to be you know, to try and summarize all the work you've done in the last decade in in one year, doesn't do it justice. But I'm sure that would have got people thinking a little bit more about some of the things that they've probably been putting off. Yeah. Excellent, mate. Well, really appreciate you having me in, and it's great to actually be sitting in the chair and be part of the community, mate. You've probably listened to how many episodes now? Too many, buddy. Stick them up for us. Probably too many, mate, but they're always valuable, so I appreciate it. Brilliant.", "guardrails": "Do: keep claims factual, avoid financial advice, be clear and compliant.\nDon't: invent stats, promise outcomes, imply endorsements.", "scope": "In scope: Centastone capability demo; regulated marketing; insurance advisory context.\nOut of scope: legal advice; pricing guarantees.", "knowledgeContext": "# Compliance guardrails + disclaimers — NZ_FMA_Compliance_Guardrails_for_Insurance_and_KiwiSaver_Marketing\nNZ Insurance & KiwiSaver Advice - Compliance Guardrails for Marketing (FMA-led)\n\n\n\n Compliance obligations for NZ insurance, risk,\n and KiwiSaver advice marketing\n Practical guardrails for advisers, brokers, and Financial Advice Providers (FAPs) to keep marketing, social\n posts, ads, and internal processes aligned with FMA expectations and the Financial Markets Conduct Act\n (FMC Act).\n\n Key summary - non-negotiables\n\n • Treat all marketing as a regulated 'advertisement' if it is intended to promote an offer or encourage\n uptake; the definition is broad. [1]\n\n • Do not mislead, omit key qualifiers, or create a 'too-good-to-be-true' overall impression. Intention does not\n matter. [1][2][7]\n\n • Any claim about returns, savings, fees, rankings, service outcomes, or comparisons must be current,\n accurate, and able to be substantiated. Avoid 'unsubstantiated representations'. [1][2][7]\n\n • Balance risk and reward; do not highlight benefits while hiding risks in fine print or after a click. [1][2]\n\n • Be careful on content-limited platforms (short videos, short captions): if you cannot include necessary\n context and risk information, do not run the ad there. [1]\n\n • Online content can cross the line into regulated financial advice if it recommends specific products or tells\n someone what to do with their money. Disclaimers alone will not fix unsuitable content. [3][6]\n\n • KiwiSaver: prompt customers to consider pros/cons of switching and ensure incentives do not drive poor\n decisions. [4]\n\n • Ensure required disclosures are available and accessible (licensing, scope, fees, commissions, conflicts,\n complaints). [5][8]\n\n\n\n 1. Who this applies to\n This document is written for NZ insurance brokers/advisers, KiwiSaver advisers, and the organisations that\n employ or contract them (FAPs). It focuses on obligations and expectations relevant to advertising and client\n communications, because those are the highest-risk areas for an AI marketing agent.\n\n\n 2. Primary regulatory sources (marketing-relevant)\n • Financial Markets Conduct Act 2013 (FMC Act) - Part 2 'fair dealing' rules apply widely to financial\n products and services; the FMA can also use stop orders to stop advertising that is likely to confuse. [2][7]\n\n • FMA guidance on advertising offers of financial products - explains how the FMA interprets fair dealing in\n advertising and what 'good' looks like. [1]\n\n • Financial Advice Code (Code of Professional Conduct for Financial Advice Services) - minimum\n standards for people giving regulated financial advice (treat fairly, integrity, suitability, understanding,\n privacy). [3]\n\n • Disclosure regime for regulated financial advice - required disclosures to retail clients at different stages\n (public, initial, and when giving advice). [5][8]\n\n • KiwiSaver sales and advice guidance - includes incentives and switching/transfer behaviour. [4]\n\n\n\nGenerated 2026-02-10 | Internal guardrails (not legal advice) Page 1\n\fNZ Insurance & KiwiSaver Advice - Compliance Guardrails for Marketing (FMA-led)\n\n\n • Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) Financial Advertising Code - industry advertising standards that sit\n alongside legal obligations. [9]\n\n\n 3. What advisers can and cannot do in marketing\n Core rule: marketing must not create a misleading or confusing overall impression. The 'overall impression'\n matters more than any single sentence or disclaimer, and intent is irrelevant. [1][2]\n\n 3.1 Fair dealing - practical 'can / cannot' checklist\n Can\n\n • Use plain language that a typical retail customer would understand.\n\n • Present key limits and conditions alongside the benefit (not hidden after a click).\n\n • Use accurate, current facts; keep evidence on file for every factual claim.\n\n • Use balanced statements about returns and risks; include fees and assumptions where relevant.\n\n • Use testimonials only if representative, not cherry-picked, and not implying guaranteed outcomes; make\n incentives/paid partnerships obvious.\n\n Cannot\n\n • Imply guarantees of returns, acceptance, or savings when outcomes depend on underwriting, eligibility,\n market performance, or assumptions.\n\n • Promote high returns or big savings without equally prominent risk/limitations/fees context.\n\n • Use absolute superlatives ('best', 'cheapest', 'No.1') without robust, current substantiation and clear basis\n for comparison.\n\n • Use fine print to contradict the headline claim.\n\n • Use urgency/pressure tactics or unsolicited meeting style approaches to push an offer.\n\n 3.2 Claims must be substantiated (evidence file)\n The FMC Act prohibits 'unsubstantiated representations' and false or misleading representations. In practice:\n keep an evidence pack for each campaign (source data, date captured, methodology, assumptions, and\n approval sign-off). [1][2][7]\n\n • Examples of claims needing evidence: premium savings, 'we handle claims faster', acceptance rates,\n 'X% cheaper', performance rankings, fee comparisons, ESG claims, tax outcomes, or customer outcome\n claims.\n\n • Evidence must match what the consumer will infer from the ad (not a narrower internal definition). [1]\n\n • Update or withdraw claims when the evidence becomes stale (e.g., pricing or performance changes).\n\n 3.3 Comparisons (providers, policies, funds)\n Comparisons are high-risk because consumers may assume like-for-like. Only compare comparable\n products/features, and explain what is included/excluded. Avoid comparing dissimilar products or using\n selective timeframes. [1][2]\n\n • State the comparison basis: date, sample size, insurers/funds included, and key assumptions.\n\n • Do not present 'average premium' or 'typical savings' as universal; use ranges and qualifiers.\n\n • Where relevant, prompt customers to review a Product Disclosure Statement (PDS) or official fund\n information before deciding.\n\n 3.4 Content-limited platforms (short video, short captions, banners)\n\n\n\nGenerated 2026-02-10 | Internal guardrails (not legal advice) Page 2\n\fNZ Insurance & KiwiSaver Advice - Compliance Guardrails for Marketing (FMA-led)\n\n\n If the medium cannot carry the context a retail client needs (risks, fees, key conditions), the safer choice is\n not to run the ad on that medium or to restructure to a compliant level of detail. FMA guidance explicitly\n addresses content-limited platforms. [1]\n\n\n 4. Where marketing becomes regulated financial advice\n Online marketing can drift into regulated financial advice when it recommends specific products, suggests a\n switch, or tells a person what they should do with their money. The FMA has issued guidance for 'talking\n about money online' because this boundary is often crossed in social content. [6]\n\n Guardrails for an AI agent:\n • Allowed: general education, explanations of concepts, checklists of questions to ask, and calls-to-action\n to book advice (without implying a recommendation).\n\n • Not allowed: 'You should switch to Fund X', 'Move your KiwiSaver now', 'This cover is right for you', or\n any personalised recommendation without an advice process.\n\n • Disclaimers ('this is not advice') do not cure content that is effectively a recommendation; the content\n itself must stay on the safe side. [6]\n\n • Any personalised response to a customer comment/DM should be routed into your regulated advice\n workflow (identity, scope, disclosures, fact-find, suitability). [3][5]\n\n\n 5. Required disclosures in marketing and lead capture\n The disclosure regime is designed so retail clients can understand who is advising them, what advice they\n can expect, and what conflicts/incentives exist. Marketing and websites should make disclosures easy to find\n and not misleading by omission. [5][8]\n\n • Public disclosure (website): FAP name, licence status, services, fees/expenses, commissions/incentives,\n conflicts, and complaints/dispute resolution. [5]\n\n • Initial disclosure (first engagement): scope of advice, fees, incentives, conflicts, and complaints process.\n [5]\n\n • When giving advice: include information needed to evaluate the advice (fees, product/provider\n remuneration, conflicts, limitations, and why the recommendation suits). [3][5]\n\n\n 6. KiwiSaver-specific marketing and advice guardrails\n FMA KiwiSaver guidance covers how providers/advisers should talk to investors, including switching/transfer\n conversations and customer incentives. [4]\n\n 6.1 Switching and transfers\n • Do not market fund switching as a default win. Prompt investors to consider advantages and\n disadvantages, including fees, investment risk, time horizon, and loss of benefits (if any). [4]\n\n • Be cautious using performance tables or 'top fund' claims; explain that past performance is not a reliable\n indicator of future performance and ensure the presentation is not misleading. [1][4]\n\n 6.2 Incentives and promotions\n The FMA expects incentives not to distort decision-making. Incentives should never be the main driver of\n switching or signing up. [4]\n\n • Allowed with care: modest incentives that are clearly disclosed, secondary to the investment decision,\n and paired with prompts to consider pros/cons. [4]\n\n • Not allowed: marketing that creates pressure, hides strings attached, or implies the incentive makes the\n product better for the customer.\n\n\n\nGenerated 2026-02-10 | Internal guardrails (not legal advice) Page 3\n\fNZ Insurance & KiwiSaver Advice - Compliance Guardrails for Marketing (FMA-led)\n\n\n • Always disclose when an influencer/affiliate is paid or rewarded for promotion; treat that as a\n conflict/incentive disclosure. [6][9]\n\n\n 7. AI marketing guardrails: mandatory workflow\n Use this as a 'hard gate' checklist for any AI-generated asset before publication.\n\n 1 Classification: Is this (a) education, (b) brand marketing, (c) product offer/promotion, or (d) advice? If (d)\n or borderline, route to advice workflow and stop. [3][6]\n\n 2 Fair dealing test: What is the overall impression? Could a retail client be misled or confused, even if\n technically true? [1][2]\n\n 3 Substantiation: For every claim, attach evidence (date, source, methodology). If you cannot evidence it,\n delete it. [1][2]\n\n 4 Balance: Are risks, limitations, fees, and key conditions as prominent as benefits? [1][2]\n 5 Comparisons: Are we comparing like-for-like with an explained basis? [1]\n 6 Disclosure: Is licensing/scope/fees/incentives/complaints information accessible from the same journey\n (page, bio link, ad landing page)? [5][8]\n\n 7 KiwiSaver: If the message could prompt switching/transferring, include pros/cons prompts and avoid\n incentive-led framing. [4]\n\n 8 Record: Keep a copy of the final asset, approvals, evidence pack, and target audience/placement details.\n\n\n 8. Quick 'red flag' phrases for AI to avoid\n If any of these appear, require human compliance review and likely rewrite:\n Guaranteed, No risk, Sure thing, Best / cheapest (without evidence), Everyone should, Switch now, Limited time\n (pressure), Approved / endorsed by the government (unless exact and true), Beat the market, Free money.\n\n\n\n\nGenerated 2026-02-10 | Internal guardrails (not legal advice) Page 4\n\f NZ Insurance & KiwiSaver Advice - Compliance Guardrails for Marketing (FMA-led)\n\n\n\n Sources and links\n Use these as primary references when updating guardrails. URLs are provided so an AI agent can fetch\n source material directly.\n\n• [1] FMA (2021) Advertising offers of financial products under the FMC Act - Guidance Note (PDF).\n https://www.fma.govt.nz/assets/Guidance/Advertising-offers-of-financial-products-guidance-note.pdf\n\n• [2] FMA Fair dealing overview page (Part 2 FMC Act + stop orders).\n https://www.fma.govt.nz/business/legislation/fair-dealing/\n\n• [3] Financial Advice Code Committee (2025) Code of Professional Conduct for Financial Advice Services\n (official version, PDF).\n https://financialadvicecode.govt.nz/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/code-2025-official-version.pdf\n\n• [4] FMA (2017) KiwiSaver sales and advice - Guidance page (with PDF).\n https://www.fma.govt.nz/library/guidance-library/kiwisaver-sales-and-advice/\n\n• [5] Legislation NZ: Financial Markets Conduct (Regulated Financial Advice Disclosure) Amendment\n Regulations 2020.\n https://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2020/0132/latest/whole.html\n\n• [6] FMA (2026) Talking about money online (guidance for online content creators).\n https://www.fma.govt.nz/library/articles/talking-about-money-online/\n\n• [7] Legislation NZ: Financial Markets Conduct Act 2013 (Part 2 - fair dealing, incl. ss 19-33).\n https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2013/0069/latest/DLM4090947.html\n\n• [8] FMA (2025) Introductory guide to full Financial Advice Provider licence requirements (PDF).\n https://www.fma.govt.nz/assets/Licensing-guides/Introductory-guide-to-full-licence-requirements.pdf\n\n• [9] Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) Financial Advertising Code.\n https://asa.co.nz/codes/codes/financial-advertising-code/\n\n\n\n\n Generated 2026-02-10 | Internal guardrails (not legal advice) Page 5\n\f\n\n---\n\n# Brand Guidelines — brand\n\f Centa (noun)\n Etymology: Derived from the Latin root for central and centum (“hundred”), symbolising\n the core, the hub, and precision in guidance.\n Definition:\n 1. The point of focus around which everything revolves.\n 2. Figuratively, a source of clarity, direction, and unity.\n\n Stone (noun)\n Etymology: From Old English stān, a universal symbol of endurance and strength.\n Definition:\n 1. A naturally hard solid material, representing durability\n 2. Figuratively, a foundation of stability, resilience, and trust.\n\n\nWe are a trusted financial advisory partner that's central to our clients future\nplanning; guiding across KiwiSaver, insurance and risk.\n\nIt’s a name built on purpose: we are both essential and dependable.\n\f Wordmark\n\n\n\n\n Brandmark\n Tagline\nLOGO\n\f “Building Your Future” is both a promise and a responsibility.\n\n At Centastone, we don’t sell products, we build futures. We do this by placing\n people at the centre of what we do, and by laying down strong, reliable\n foundations in insurance, KiwiSaver, and financial advice.\n\n Just like a cornerstone in architecture, Centastone is the solid start to\n something lasting.\n\n\n\n\nTAGLINE\n\f 90°\n\n\n\n\n 270°\n\n\n\n\n 270°\n 90°\n 90°\n\n\n\n\nBRANDMARK - The Inspiration\n\f In almost all cases the full logo should be used. It combines the brandmark,\n the logo and tagline all in one.\n\n\n\n\nPRIMARY LOGO\n\f Horizontal\n\n\n\n\n Vertical\n\n\n\n\n If the primary logo does not fit, the secondary logo can be used. There is both a horizontal\n and vertical logo, depending on the use.\n If using the tag line is not appropriate, then either of the above logos should be used.\n\n\nSECONDARY LOGO\n\f The supporting logo assets can be used where it is immediately evident you are dealing\n with Centastone. Social Media, Internal Comms or if the logo has already been used,\n are great examples of where these are appropriate.\n\n\nSUPPORTING LOGOS\n\f1. No Keyline 2. Do Not Alter Or Stretch\n\n\n\n\n3. Logo Colours Or Shape Are Not To Be Changed 4. Logo Is Not To Be Edited\n\n\n\n\nLOGO RULES - The Do Not’s\n\f Minimum clearance equal to at least the height of the C should be used around the logo to ensure\n there is clear space.\n\n When presented along side other logos, no logo should be more dominant or suggest a partnership\n outside of the acceptable agreement, as per the AIA example here.\n\n\n\n\nLOGO SPACING\n\f The Centastone Purple “Future Purple” has been carefully\n selected to ensure it represents the Centatsone brand. It\n must be used according the colour codes on this page to\n ensure consistency across all assets.\n\nCOLOUR\n\f FUTURE INDIGO\n\n\n\nTINTS - Adding White\n\n\n\n\nSHADES - Adding Black\n\n\n\n\n 120% 140% 160% BLACK\n\n\n\n\nCOLOUR USE\n\f Headings should\n always capitalised\n\n Sub Headings in\n Title Case\n\n\n\n\nTYPOGRAPHY\n\f CONTRAST CHECKER\n\n\n\n\n COLOUR BLINDNESS\n SIMULATOR\n\n\n\n\n Colour variations in text should be high contrast.\n Be aware that this colour can be perceived\n differently to those with colour blindness. High\n contrast ensures it is easy to read by all.\n\n\nTYPOGRAPHY & COLOUR\n\f The Centastone pattern was designed to create visual\n interest for the brand. It is made by repeating the brand\n mark. It should only be used in the above colours, in a full\n shape.\n\n\nPATTERN\n\f CENTASTONE\n We’re deeply invested in the communities we serve, Our clients count on us to safeguard what matters\n building relationships that go beyond policies to most, and we earn that trust through consistent,\n create lasting positive impact. reliable service.\n\n\n\n Every decision we make starts with our clients We believe in clear, honest communication, no hidden\n needs, ensuring protection and peace of mind at terms, no surprises, just straightforward insurance you\n every stage of life. can understand.\n\n\n\n With years of proven expertise and integrity, we stand We harness the latest tools to make insurance simpler,\n behind our advice, our products, and our promises. faster, and more accessible, without losing the human\n touch.\n\n\nVALUES - The T’s and C’s\n\f We communicate in plain, concise language that is easy to\n understand.\n\n\n Every interaction is polite, respectful, and considerate of the\n recipient’s time.\n\n\n We respond promptly, keeping clients informed without\n unnecessary delays.\n\n\n Our messages are complete, accurate, and leave no\n unanswered questions.\n\nCOMMUNICATION - The T’s & C’s\n\fPRESENTATION - The T’s & C’s\n\fWe listen attentively, value every perspective, and communicate in a way that honours our clients\nand their experiences.\n\n\nWe understand that insurance often comes at important life moments, and we speak with care,\ncompassion, and understanding.\n\n\nOur language is warm, clear, and free of jargon, making it easy for anyone to start a conversation\nwith us.\n\n\nWe uphold the highest standards in our communication, ensuring accuracy, clarity, and reliability in\nevery interaction.\n\nTONE OF VOICE\n\f\f\n\n---\n\n# Brand Guidelines — Brand Guidelines\n\n\n---\n\n# Brand Guidelines — \n" } }

{ "seed": 1733096785, "pick": "Clear, compliant, and brand-consistent.", "input": { "agentName": "Writer", "agentRole": "Article writer", "agentPrompt": "Write a publishable article using ONLY transcript-derived material. If an ingredient is missing, do not invent; instead insert a bracketed TODO and list it in open questions.", "outputSpec": "Deliverable must include:\n- 5 headline options\n- Article 800–1200 words with clear sections\n- CTA (soft)\n- Disclaimer\n- FAQ (5 Qs)", "instruction": "Write the article + FAQ (no invention).", "transcript": "\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n00:00\r\nToday, we're gonna be talking the sexy and exciting topic of insurance. Now don't switch this off just because we're gonna be talking about insurance because we've got Johnny Winstone\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n00:09\r\nin to tell us all of the things we want to know to learn more about this exciting space, mate. A man that I believe has been in the industry for over a decade now. Coming up to it. Yeah. Yeah. What drew you to the insurance industry originally? Well, mate, it was actually, with a bit of family encouragement. So my wife's father,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n00:26\r\nhas been in the industry for close to forty years now. His father, his grandfather were also in the space. Wow. And I was at a bit of a crossroads about ten years ago, and,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n00:36\r\nI was looking at sort of two fields to get into. One was actually to look at going into supermarkets, and then the other was going into insurance.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n00:42\r\nAnd so I went out and ghosted him for a couple of days. He was able to show me his process, what he does, how he interacts with people, and it just started to resonate with me. And\r\n\r\nYou\r\n00:52\r\nthe thing that I was looking for out of my career was to be able to provide value to people on an ongoing basis, and I truly see that our personal insurance offering is a way that we can achieve that, great way of meeting people, and, you know, an amazing way to build a business and lifestyle off the back of it. Yeah. Nice. So fast forward to today then, you know, ten years of doing this, how many how many clients have you got? You're a very busy man. Yeah. Look. The each day is pretty hectic, but, we wouldn't change anything about that.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n01:19\r\nSo we're managing a client base of about 6,000 people now. Yeah. So some of that's come through acquisition, and then a lot have come through my own network, individual clients that I've brought on, but always looking to grow into the future. And now I'm getting a big kick out of seeing other advisers join me on the journey and seeing them start to build their client bases. So each day it grows and gets more exciting. What's changed from ten years ago in the insurance space to now? Like, what would I'm I'd imagine Heaps has, but what are the sort of main things that you've seen in that time? In the industry? Yeah.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n01:50\r\nLook. I think we're starting to see this real influx of robo advice,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n01:54\r\ncome in, which is online provided advice for clients going in, signing up to policies online.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n02:00\r\nLook. I think it's great for exposure in the industry, but I don't necessarily think that clients are getting a true understanding of what's available and how they should structure their own personal insurance.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n02:11\r\nWe're seeing a lot of these clients that we happen to stumble across\r\n\r\nYou\r\n02:15\r\nmight only have a singular benefit in place, but they think that it caters to all of their risk needs, and that's not the case. So through education, we bring them up to speed, sort of show them what's available, and go through that process and put them in a better position.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n02:28\r\nSo through some of the robo advice, etcetera, they're potentially signing up for things that they don't actually understand\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n02:34\r\nor think they've got cover that they may not actually have? Correct. And I think, like, we're pretty conditioned,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n02:39\r\nwe're getting better in New Zealand anyway, of\r\n\r\nYou\r\n02:41\r\nhaving some exposure to life insurance, but people are taking out a life insurance policy and thinking that's all they need. Mhmm. But they're not then going the step further to think about major illnesses and losing their income if they were to be out of work for a period of time. So without that education piece, they're doing what they feel is the right thing to do, but but they're sort of missing a piece to the puzzle.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n03:02\r\nWell, any insights, mate, to to stick to your craft for a decade? Like, a lot of people struggle these days to do one, two, even three years would be, like, a long time to stay somewhere. Sure. But I'd imagine that from\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n03:14\r\nonce you, you know, get through those first couple of years, then you're into your rhythm, and then it's probably the same thing just about every day, every week, every month, every year. And would I be right? Well, yes and no. Like, there there's a like, I enjoy a lot of things about what I do for work, and, fundamentally,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n03:32\r\nthe big thing is people. Right? Like, I get a lot of, value out of meeting people, meet some really inspiring,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n03:39\r\ncharacters along the way, which, like, I take a lot from.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n03:42\r\nYeah. Probably more recently,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n03:44\r\nthe challenge has been or the challenge and the opportunity has set in seeing the business grow and the involvement of now managing a team\r\n\r\nYou\r\n03:52\r\nand all that comes with that.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n03:54\r\nBut, yeah, each day seems to be different, but\r\n\r\nYou\r\n03:57\r\nworking with those clients, building those relationships, and now sort of years into it, starting to support them as claimed is starting to arise for various health conditions or minor events and just being there for them and actually being a voice that they can\r\n\r\nYou\r\n04:11\r\nconsult with, that they might not be able to with some of their own family even.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n04:15\r\nThey might not be able to get all of their advice from their doctor. So we do turn into a bit of a counselor, and we really respect and value that position that we hold with clients at particularly at that point in their lives. Because I I imagine a lot of people probably just look at insurance or the industry and think, oh, you're just selling people insurance. But that's just literally the start. Right? And there's ongoing advice, making sure it's fit for purpose\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n04:37\r\nand also\r\n\r\nYou\r\n04:38\r\nhelping them if they need to actually use it? Look. I personally run quite a pragmatic approach to people's levels of cover that need to go into place. You know, I think a lot of people can quite often build in nice to haves in the values that are getting created, but in turn, that's gonna increase the premiums.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n04:54\r\nYeah. So by running a more sort of staged approach to people's insurance,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n04:59\r\nwe put in place what's required now with a a twelve to twenty four month lens on it, but we stay in regular communication and start updating\r\n\r\nYou\r\n05:06\r\nas their life dictates it. And that might be increases depending if their family's growing, if they're taking on more debt, but it might equally be decreases as things are starting to improve in value in their background, whether it's KiwiSaver balances, the property values,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n05:21\r\nmortgages getting reduced, kids are now getting older.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n05:24\r\nThere are always a lot of variables that are constantly shifting, and it we don't wanna fall into a trap of going, hey. Look. We're thinking about having kids in three years' time. Let's consider that in part of the life insurance conversation now\r\n\r\nYou\r\n05:36\r\nbecause you take out more cover than that's what's required. And it might not be three years. It might be five years. So why pay the additional premium throughout that period of time? Just build a relationship with your adviser and sort of actually,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n05:49\r\nyou know, be open to having that review because\r\n\r\nYou\r\n05:52\r\nit's not always about us coming out to sell you more insurance. That's not the aim of the game. We just wanna make sure it's reflecting your position on an ongoing basis. Yeah. Nice. And that's actually sustainable. Because I guess the worst thing is that people will then get rid of their insurance because they don't, you know, feel like they they need it, and then they've got no cover. Yeah. Or people just don't engage with us for reviews, not so much with our clients, and then they start getting a bit disgruntled that they've just got this outgoing, and they don't understand what it's for. Yeah. And so we find through the review process, if you keep the conversation refreshed, people understand it, they get it, they see the value in it, and they're quite happy investing that premium on a monthly basis to know that they have that good solid plan b.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n06:33\r\nSo when you got involved in the industry in year one, did you see yourself doing a decade and and and carrying on from there? Yeah. I did. I absolutely saw where it is my career. Yes. And I was exceptionally fortunate to have my father in law's guidance on the way through, and I'm very grateful\r\n\r\nYou\r\n06:49\r\nfor him early on in particular. Yeah. In fact, he said he didn't want me early on, so he kicked me to one of the corporate insurers, which was the best thing I could have done at the time to get their training, get an understanding of the insurance world. And as I say to people, I went and joined him after a year and got the real world training of how it actually works and became an independent adviser, so we work with all insurance companies.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n07:11\r\nBut, yeah, it was always gonna be the Korean.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n07:14\r\nThere were always grand plans of working in his business with an aim to take it over.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n07:19\r\nThat, by\r\n\r\nYou\r\n07:20\r\ndefault, has actually started to change over the years. My business has got bigger.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n07:25\r\nStill a conversation that's\r\n\r\nYou\r\n07:26\r\non the table, but,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n07:28\r\nyeah, look. There's always something to work through. Yeah. Nice one. Well, insurance is a very wide topic. Right? So let's just narrow it down a little bit in terms of the types of insurance that you're mostly focusing on. And I had a quick look that apparently the most popular types of insurance in New Zealand, I'm keen to know if chat GBT is right on this, mate,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n07:46\r\nhealth, life, and income protection if we stay away from general and fire and stuff like that. Right? So would that be are those, like, the the key three these days that people are looking at? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So those are the fundamentals\r\n\r\nYou\r\n07:59\r\nto insurance. And inside that, there's a few different benefit subsets that you can consider.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n08:05\r\nBut, certainly, my focus sits in the space of looking after individuals\r\n\r\nYou\r\n08:09\r\nopposed to assets. So those are certainly the benefits that we offer to all of our clients. But probably the big one that's missing from there that I've been most passionate about is something called trauma insurance, which is really focused as a lump sum payment that's made at the diagnosis time for major health conditions, whether it be cancers, heart attacks, and strokes.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n08:31\r\nBut to me, that is the biggest life insurance related benefit\r\n\r\nYou\r\n08:35\r\nthat can really protect somebody's overall financial position.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n08:39\r\nYou know, getting that cancer diagnosis can be heartbreaking. It can be financially\r\n\r\nYou\r\n08:44\r\nvery unsettling for people,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n08:46\r\nbut having\r\n\r\nYou\r\n08:47\r\nthis payment come through at that point in your life can just take a lot of pressure off. It allows you to focus on the recovery without having to sell assets, come out the other side, and still be in a sound financial position for the rest of your life and also retirement.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n09:01\r\nSo is that did you say is that a so trauma, is it a type of life insurance, did you say? Yeah. So I broadly refer to life\r\n\r\nYou\r\n09:08\r\neverything as life insurance. However, inside life insurance, there are other lump sum payments, whether it's the trauma benefit,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n09:15\r\nanother one called total and permanent disability cover,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n09:18\r\nwhich is centered around loss of lit the use of limbs,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n09:23\r\nbut more commonly now we actually see it getting paid out around mental health conditions, which is a a growing area of concern in New Zealand. And then we have the sort of income protection related benefits, whether it's purely to replace income or if it's centered around making sure the mortgage can be serviced if you're out of work. Getting in the KiwiSaver fund that suits you and your situation is key to making sure you're maximizing your investment.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n09:46\r\nGenerate are an award winning KiwiSaver provider with a track record of long term performance and they can help you do exactly this. Their advisors can meet with you to talk about all your options when it comes to KiwiSaver to help you decide what's best for you. Too many people never get KiwiSaver advice, but not you. Go to generatekiwisaver.co.nzed/change\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n10:07\r\nto book a no obligation chat with a generate adviser. A copy of the product disclosure statement is available at generatekiwisaver.co.nzed.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n10:14\r\nThe issuer of scheme is generate investment management limited, and of course, past performance does not guarantee future returns.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n10:20\r\nSo your trauma cover could, like you said before, it could be cancer, heart attack, stroke. So you have one of those events in your life and basically that then\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n10:29\r\npotentially\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n10:30\r\ntriggers the payment of that, and you can use that to support your income\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n10:33\r\nor,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n10:34\r\nthe cost of your how your life now looks?\r\n\r\nYou\r\n10:37\r\nWell, it's more about meeting sort of increased living expenses as a direct result of getting that used. Yeah. So quite often, what I've seen with some of my clients is that\r\n\r\nYou\r\n10:46\r\nthey may be out of in out of work and also their income's been reduced or disappeared completely,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n10:52\r\nbut they in turn then need their partner to stop work to now care for them or be able to look after the children on a full time basis. Yeah. So we're actually allowing for both parents in some cases to be out of work and be able to financially manage that. But it's more about meeting the short term unexpected expenses opposed to it being a long term strategy for replacing lost income, and that's certainly where the value starts setting in income protection and mortgage repayment benefits. Okay.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n11:18\r\nSo then life insurance, this one seems a little bit simpler, is built around you pass away\r\n\r\nYou\r\n11:25\r\nand or you may pass away. Is that right as well? Or that's different again. Correct. So I think that's a big big misconception Yeah. Is that it's just a benefit that pays out if you have passed away. The reality is that it can also pay out if you have a terminal illness where there's less than a year to live.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n11:41\r\nI've had quite a few clients who have unfortunately been in this position, and it's been, you know, very interesting for me to be part of that journey with them.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n11:51\r\nBut in our conversations, the life insurance value is normally equated by, you know, the mortgage level, what levels of income we need to replace if they have passed away for their family.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n12:01\r\nBut when people have had a terminal diagnosis, I've had clients that have put their family onto a plane. They've gone and had the family holidays while they still had the ability to do it. Yeah. Had other clients who've gone out and bought a motor home because that was always part of their retirement dream, and they still wanted to be able to do that together\r\n\r\nYou\r\n12:18\r\nbefore they had to come back and deal with the reality of their situation. So\r\n\r\nYou\r\n12:23\r\nin our conversations, we have to send it around tangible items.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n12:27\r\nBut when people find themselves in that situation,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n12:30\r\nall bets are off and other things can be exercised.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n12:33\r\nYeah. So, basically, let's say someone like, how do you actually prove this? So you get a terminal diagnosis\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n12:39\r\nfrom a doctor, I assume, and then you go to your insurer or your adviser and then say, hey. Unfortunately, this is my situation.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n12:48\r\nYou know, have I triggered my insurance policy? And they just wired the cash over. Is that correct? In in a fit, that's how it works. So two specialists in that particular field would need to sign off that there it was a terminal diagnosis with that timeline.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n13:01\r\nBut from there, it's actually quite a straightforward process. And with life insurance claims, with the paperwork being available, claims are often paid within inside a week. Wow. So it does give very quick access to those funds.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n13:14\r\nAnd those funds might not go into the family holidays or the camper vans like some of my clients, but they might also go into additional medical treatment that might be available overseas, and it's not funded through our public health system or even the New Zealand based medical insurance policies. Yeah. But because they've got those funds available to them, they might be able to make different decisions that weren't previously available to them. So insurance is basically derisking a potential outcome,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n13:42\r\nright, no matter which way we look at it, whether it's a fire or death, etcetera. Correct. Yeah. Like, I mean, until you're in a position where you can write a check out to cover the financial exposure that sits in your life, that's where there's value in having that insurance in place. And as I say, as your position evolves over time and other assets grow in value, your need for insurance is actually gonna taper off. Yeah. So we need to map that out on our journey through our review conversations.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n14:08\r\nWhen do from your experience and then, Shrume, when do people\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n14:12\r\nnormally first get introduced to insurance in New Zealand? Is it around purchase of the first property? Yep. Bang on. Bang on. So it's it's either triggered by,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n14:21\r\ngetting married, which is probably\r\n\r\nYou\r\n14:23\r\nless common as the the driver to take out insurance, but then certainly having children\r\n\r\nYou\r\n14:28\r\nand then taking on debt where their financial exposure is starting to increase.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n14:32\r\nThat's where we need to cover that that that financial risk through insurance. And so does that look like, okay. I've now got debt.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n14:39\r\nIf I was to lose my income or life, etcetera, I want the comfort of knowing I've derisked the situation\r\n\r\nYou\r\n14:46\r\nwith a financial side on the other side of it where that could clear some of the mortgage or assure that the mortgage can still be paid so we don't lose the property? Correct. Yeah. So it's just taking that practical approach. And if it's a young couple buying a property and it's $50.50, it might not necessarily be that we're gearing your life insurance up to cover all of the debt because\r\n\r\nYou\r\n15:05\r\nyou might not have any dependents yet. You might buy you both might be making good levels of income. So it's more about just reducing your share so that no financial burden's passed on to your partner.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n15:17\r\nEqually, the same logic applies to income replacement.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n15:20\r\nWe don't always need to cover all of your income. The levels are really gonna be dictated by your current commitments and forecasting\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n15:28\r\nwhat those might increase over time and making sure that, financially, we have a plan in place to manage that. What about, you know, people being made redundant at the moment and losing their jobs and stuff? Is are they covered with some of these policies, or does income protection not sort of cover that that space? Yeah. It's certainly a pretty topical conversation at the moment. We're getting some phone calls. Yeah. We're certainly seeing a a a Verizon,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n15:52\r\nrequest to take out redundancy cover. In short, it is still available in New Zealand, but post COVID, a lot of the insurers pulled out of that space. Yeah. So we're down to two options.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n16:02\r\nCan't can't be taken out as a stand alone benefit, so it needs to be taken out in conjunction with an income protection or a mortgage repayment benefit. Yeah. But, yes, they're still certainly available and certainly will come in hot demand.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n16:16\r\nPersonally, I feel you, you know, individuals really need to look at their situation. They need to look at their employment contracts, work through it with their adviser to see if it's actually gonna be the right fit for them because they might actually be getting enough of a payout through their redundancy clauses in their contracts to actually outweigh what the benefit is in that redundancy product.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n16:36\r\nAnd I always say to people, with redundancy,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n16:39\r\nthe likelihood is that you've actually still got your health and your ability to work.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n16:43\r\nSo you might not go necessarily straight back into your dream job and dream levels of income, but you can still go out and work and get by and work your way back to those positions.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n16:53\r\nI would always be more focused on when you've lost the ability to work, when the big accidents happen, when the major health conditions come along, and you're out of work, it's out of your control with an unknown timeline.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n17:04\r\nAnd I tend to put more focus on that side of the conversation because of the long term risk associated to it.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n17:11\r\nAnd with the average age\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n17:13\r\nincreasing for the purchase of a first home, I think it's coming from, like, 25 to 37 or something, have you noticed that your customer age has increased naturally? Because then people aren't looking at insurance as early.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n17:25\r\nWe probably haven't seen so much of that average age shift in in our world. Like, as you know, I work with some great mortgage brokers.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n17:33\r\nOne of them sits on the podcast on a regular basis, and, typically, we're still seeing those clients be in their, like, twenties and early thirties. And I know that that's not the case based on the averages, but, certainly, the clients we're seeing and engaging with\r\n\r\nYou\r\n17:46\r\nare typically in that 20, 30\r\n\r\nYou\r\n17:49\r\nage band. Yeah. And then it's about building a relationship with them that we can look after them for the future and take care of them for their future insurance needs as well. And is there,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n17:59\r\nyou know, is there something we need to be thinking about when we aren't necessarily buying a property,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n18:05\r\nthat we need to be thinking about insurance earlier? Like, is there a case for younger people thinking about insurance in their early twenties? Sure. I mean, in effect, as soon as you start generating income, that becomes your greatest asset long term. Right? Yeah.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n18:18\r\nSo even if we look at basic maths for a 25 year old who happened to be on a 100,000, which I know is not always the case, but it makes the maths easier.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n18:27\r\nYou know, even without inflation and without any pay increases, over a thirty year time period to retirement,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n18:35\r\nforty year time period. Sorry. I might need to eat at that part.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n18:39\r\nYou know, that that's effectively a $4,000,000\r\n\r\nYou\r\n18:42\r\nasset to them that they might lose out on generating because of one of these unexpected health conditions arising. So my view is that the conversation should start early. We don't need to overinsure you early on, but we do need to start managing that risk as soon as you start generating income. Because most people who are working, to the most part, will be already renting properties. They might have some car finance. They might be making,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n19:06\r\nyou know, they might have committed themselves to\r\n\r\nYou\r\n19:10\r\nsome financial commitments and debt. Yeah.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n19:12\r\nSo the question does become, even at a young age, how would you support those expenses that aren't gonna disappear because you're not working,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n19:19\r\nand that's where the insurance piece comes back into it? And on that, is it cheaper when you're younger because you're then less likely to die probably statistically? Because this is how insurance is calculated. Right? Totally. Yeah. So, look, the premiums are very affordable for younger clients, to put good levels of cover in place. As you get older and that risk profile changes,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n19:40\r\nthen that is reflected in the premium structure.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n19:45\r\nBut there are a couple of approaches to this. So one, if I go back to the review, it's about managing the levels of cover that are in place because we don't wanna have you over insured and overpaying for premiums.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n19:56\r\nAnd then the second option is we can take quite a long term approach as to how we wanna structure the premiums on the policy.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n20:03\r\nAnd a lot of people just think that there's only one, and that's what we refer to as a rate for age premium. So that's gonna be each year, the premiums are calculated that based on your age, and as you get older, which we can't control,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n20:15\r\nthat's gonna start to, in turn, increase the premiums.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n20:19\r\nOr we can take more of a long term strategy and use something called a level premium, which is kind of like a fixed mortgage rate where we fix in a fixed monthly premium for a defined amount of cover over a fixed term, and, typically, that's to the age 70 or 80. And we know that we're basically gonna lock that level of cover in at a known quantity each month until you turn 70 years old. Yeah. So while it might work out to be more expensive short term, the savings over that term of the policy are substantial.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n20:51\r\nIt's just about making sure that it's gonna be financially affordable for each client, which is a big part to our conversation, and that it fits in with what their long term objectives are Yeah. In regards to their insurance position.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n21:03\r\nIn bit of a tangent. So I'm fairly sure every time I go and see my old man, he tells me how, his life insurance is getting more expensive because he's getting older, and he's like, you you could buy it off me. And so, like, that that's still a thing. People still do that. Yep. Look. It it's a pretty challenging conversation for people to have, and it's kind of taking a bet on mom and dad that at some point in time, they're they're gonna pass away, which is a sad reality, but we are seeing that more commonly happen where children will start to pay for their parents' life insurance policies because they are gonna be the beneficiary. So\r\n\r\nYou\r\n21:36\r\nwe don't see it a lot, but it certainly is happening.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n21:39\r\nAnd so in that position, do they like, would I just start paying his insurance on his behalf and I get something in writing to say, should he die, that that money, those funds don't go to the estate. They go directly to I become the policyholder. Sure. So there's a couple of different ways that we can set that up. So either we can nominate a specified beneficiary,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n21:58\r\nor you might even become a policy owner on your dad's life insurance policy, which means that you're paying the premium. But if in turn, if he passes away, you can speak to the insurance company, and those funds will be paid directly out to you. Yeah. Wow. Because I guess then the\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n22:12\r\nthe insurer is not gonna that they'd rather probably be paid. Right? But,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n22:15\r\nif he cancels that, then, basically, that's like, it's gone. Yeah. So in New Zealand, we only have something called term life insurance, which is effectively a yearly renewable policy,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n22:26\r\nand it's a fixed amount of cover for for set amounts of premium. But at the end of the policy or when you choose to cancel it or make significant adjustments to it, that becomes the end of it.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n22:37\r\nWe used to have these benefits called how whole of life or endowment policies,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n22:43\r\nwhere they're a combination of life insurance and also investments.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n22:47\r\nBut, ultimately, we didn't have the scale in our population to make them work.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n22:51\r\nCountries like China and India have they've proven to be unbelievably\r\n\r\nYou\r\n22:55\r\nsuccessful because they can just get the people into it and get a bigger pool of funds working for the policyholders.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n23:01\r\nYeah.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n23:02\r\nInteresting. Alright. Maybe I have to have a serious conversation with my dad. He might even be watching. I'm I'm not sure if he's joking or not, but, yeah, I wasn't even sure if it's still actually doable. But Yeah. Better watch out then.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n23:12\r\nYeah. Yeah. I have to go and see what it costs them. Hey. So what's the split in between the the types of, people that you're dealing with in terms of the type of insurance that they are, you know, getting support,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n23:23\r\nfrom you to put in place? In terms of the age demographic or the program? Yeah. Even the type. So because I know you probably do some in the business space as well, right, which we can get to, but is it predominantly,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n23:33\r\nlike, life income protection\r\n\r\nYou\r\n23:35\r\nat those two spots or or even, you know, first time buyers, etcetera? Yeah. So I think particularly for new clients for insurance, it's really important to discuss all benefits, and some might not be relevant to their particular position, but that can evolve over time, and at least they've got an understanding of how those might fit in.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n23:52\r\nCertainly, with my clients, they would always have life and trauma insurance as an absolute minimum foundation\r\n\r\nYou\r\n23:59\r\nplan.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n24:00\r\nMedical insurance is a good cornerstone to have in that because some of the medical costs in New Zealand are starting to skyrocket. Yeah. I think that problem's gonna compound,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n24:09\r\nin the years to come.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n24:11\r\nBut, typically, as my clients are typically first home buyers or they're going through a refinance process,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n24:17\r\nthey will always have mortgage repayment or income protection in place. And it's it's case by case dependent depending on what they do for work and how their finances are structured as to what's actually gonna be appropriate for them. Well, on that, there's a lot of chat at the moment about the cost of insurance increasing, and I think people are feeling it. What's driving that cost of,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n24:37\r\ninsurance increase? Well, in the life insurance space, over the last couple of years,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n24:41\r\none of our big hurdles has been the inflation rates have been so high. So the policies are typically increasing as you you get a year older, but they're also increasing with inflation.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n24:52\r\nSo that inflation rate is impacting premiums, and it's also increasing the sum insured value of the policies.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n24:59\r\nSo that's to make sure that a policy that was taken out twenty years ago is actually staying relative to the cost of a dollar\r\n\r\nYou\r\n25:06\r\ninto the future.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n25:08\r\nSo that's certainly been a big stumbling block for for people over the last couple of years.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n25:13\r\nBut once again, in that review process, you can actually discuss with your adviser declining that inflation readjustment, which can help manage some of that premium change on a year to year basis. And you don't need to decline it forever. You might do it this year. You might skip it for a couple of years and then decline it again.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n25:30\r\nBut, really, it depends on what your situation is.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n25:34\r\nFor most people, though, that have got maybe slightly older kids and their debt's reducing and their financial position's getting stronger, they might not have a need for that life insurance policy to keep increasing over time as well. So that's where we might permanently turn that inflation readjustment off.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n25:50\r\nI see. So that's basically saying let let's say, like, I when I took out life insurance, it was $200,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n25:55\r\nbut that was probably over ten years ago. So I want that to be adjusting to become adjusted for inflation so that it's keeping up with that. So I'm in Correct. Three I'm actually insuring myself for 330,000,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n26:07\r\nfor instance. Correct. So it's all relative. New Zealand. Yeah.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n26:11\r\nAnd and I think one of the other big components that we're seeing is that, you know, particularly if we look in the medical insurance space, we're starting to see a huge increase in claims starting to flow through across all providers here.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n26:23\r\nAnd, you know, the reality is we're pretty fortunate in New Zealand with our public health system,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n26:28\r\nand they're very well set up for acute related conditions, and I refer to things like heart attacks and strokes.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n26:34\r\nBut for nonlife\r\n\r\nYou\r\n26:36\r\nthreatening conditions, whether it's hip replacements and\r\n\r\nYou\r\n26:40\r\nevents like that,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n26:41\r\nit's all severity based, and it's a waiting list, and there's just an unknown timeline to that. And people are starting to get frustrated with it, and the timelines are actually getting blown out. So we've seen more and more people take out private medical insurance,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n26:55\r\nwhich in turn is putting more pressure on the private world.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n26:59\r\nAnd\r\n\r\nYou\r\n26:59\r\nin turn, some of those prices are starting to increase from those specialists, and surgical costs are increasing.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n27:05\r\nSo it's a compounding effect as as the pressure gets put into the private sector.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n27:11\r\nIn turn, that's gonna see the premium start to increase. I wonder if we could see a time where maybe people paying for their own types of of insurance that are then taking\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n27:21\r\nthe pressure off of the public health system could then be,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n27:25\r\nyou know, tax incentivized so that becomes a tax deductible expense. I'm probably hoping for something that Yeah. Never gonna happen. But you know what I mean? Like, people are kind of insuring themselves to go, okay. Well, I don't wanna have to wait. Mhmm. So I wanna be able to go private. And if they've got the means so they can afford to, then they aren't gonna use the public health system. So then they're both paying tax and then paying an insurance, so they don't need to use it.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n27:46\r\nI wonder It's a it's a great pipe dream, and we're certainly supported in our world.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n27:51\r\nI mean, we start to see elements of that creep in, you know, like, for all self employed people who are paying ACC levies, there are actually ways to adjust how much is paid to ACC.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n28:01\r\nAnd with some of those savings, it can offset the cost of putting in far more comprehensive income protection, mortgage repayment benefits to cover the same risk that ACC would have. But you'll also have the benefit of covering health conditions, which there's not a lot of financial support for through the public sector.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n28:18\r\nSo,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n28:19\r\nlook, it could happen.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n28:21\r\nCertainly. Yeah. Probably not. Let's start another poll, get some signatures, and see how we go. But,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n28:27\r\nlook, it it would be great to see initiatives like that come through, but it's certainly nothing I'm familiar with at the moment. I don't think it's on the radar for the insurers to be driving it at this stage. Yeah. But I guess what you're saying as well is that as more people have been thought, okay. I can pay for this insurance myself, then they're needing to use those claims, and then that's just putting more people into the private space as well, which is then driving up demand and therefore price too. Yeah. So, I mean, if we if we look at one of the health insurers that we work with, in July,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n28:54\r\ntheir claims\r\n\r\nYou\r\n28:55\r\nstats were up. They had 30% more claims than their previous month on record. And so\r\n\r\nYou\r\n29:01\r\nin turn, that's just a great signal that the private sector's getting more and more use.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n29:07\r\nYeah. More and more claims are getting paid. So this particular provider had about 260,000\r\n\r\nYou\r\n29:13\r\nclaims in the '23\r\n\r\nYou\r\n29:15\r\nfinancial year. Sheesh.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n29:17\r\nYeah. So it's massive. Yeah.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n29:20\r\nAnd and they're they're\r\n\r\nYou\r\n29:22\r\ngood scale size insurer, but there are other bigger providers out there that have seen far greater levels of of claim volume flow through.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n29:30\r\nBeat the power game with Power Shop. If you wanna get ahead with your money, you need to get ahead with your bills. Back in the day, I used to get a little thrill when a power bill would arrive in the mail and show that I was in credit. The thrill of being ahead of your bills is a feeling money can't buy. Power shop is in the business of delivering that feeling. They do things differently giving you the insight and control over your bill to stay ahead. With Power shop, you can see what you're using and purchase power packs which are discounted packs of power ahead of time. This enables you to plan ahead and pay for power when it suits you. All in all, being with PowerShot means you're informed and empowered to take control of your power bill. So what are you waiting for? Take charge of your dollars, kilowatts, and cents by switching to PowerShot. As a bonus, you can choose between a $150\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n30:17\r\ncredit or free weekends when you sign up. To see how much you could save, visit powershop.co.nzed\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n30:22\r\nand get a savings estimate simply by uploading a recent electricity bill. Talk to us about the mental health piece that you mentioned before in terms of people being able to claim for that. Like, how how is that coming about? Yeah. So, look, it's a it's a complicated one.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n30:37\r\nBut if we look at sort of short term events where we might be able to work for things like burnout or isolated stress,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n30:44\r\nthat's when we start to lean on benefits like income protection and mortgage repayment because it's recognizing that you're out of work due to medical reasons, and we're gonna make sure that there's continuing cash flow coming through in that particular situation.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n30:57\r\nFor very advanced conditions,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n31:00\r\nwhere you might permanently be taken out of the workplace,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n31:03\r\nthat's where the total and permanent disability benefit can come through and support you with a big lump sum pain payment to help support that transition\r\n\r\nYou\r\n31:12\r\nand sort of support you longer term.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n31:15\r\nThe health insurers in the market are doing what they can. Personally, I feel like there's work to be done by the insurers in this space, but we are starting to see some positive movement from someone health health insurance as a benefit offering sort of 2 and a half thousand dollars worth of\r\n\r\nYou\r\n31:32\r\npsychiatric support.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n31:34\r\nWe're starting to see some of the bigger insurers in the marketplace\r\n\r\nYou\r\n31:37\r\nreally drive wellness,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n31:39\r\nprograms as part of their insurance offering to sort of better support their clients, making sure they're staying active, doing their annual health checks, and and ultimately just keeping better tabs on their overall well-being. So\r\n\r\nYou\r\n31:52\r\nit's a slow it's a slow moving tide that we've gotta ride, but there is work to be done in that space.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n31:57\r\nSo if people have genuine mental health issues and they know that they've got forms of insurance, they should probably be reaching out to their adviser and saying, hey. Absolutely. Yeah. Like, I mean, we always encourage our clients to contact us\r\n\r\nYou\r\n32:09\r\nwhether they think that there's a claimable event or not.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n32:12\r\nAnd quite often,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n32:14\r\nthere have been cases where I've had calls from people and they go, look, it's probably nothing, but, you know, this little event's popped up. And I go, well, send me through this information. There's a process that needs to be followed, but let's explore it. You know? Like, insurance is there to be used, and we encourage our clients to use it. Because it's no real work for us to try and support our clients at that point in time. And I've got, you know, couple of examples where I've had those conversations with clients, and they've\r\n\r\nYou\r\n32:41\r\nyou know, one example is a client who had a grade four skin melanoma cut out of his neck, and it was a very minor\r\n\r\nYou\r\n32:47\r\nprocedure to have it removed.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n32:49\r\nBut because of the information that we sort of guided them to get, we went from going,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n32:55\r\nlet's just cover the cost of the medical procedure, to him actually having a full trauma insurance payment. And he didn't think that he was gonna get anything from it. In fact, he didn't even think he could claim for the medical procedure. So Yeah. Sometimes you just don't know what you don't know.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n33:08\r\nMhmm. I've had instances where we've\r\n\r\nYou\r\n33:11\r\nhad reviews with clients and, you know, we ask them how their health's been and what's been happening in this sort of world, and, you know, you'll speak to a husband and wife. I can think of one story quite clearly in my head where\r\n\r\nYou\r\n33:24\r\na good New Zealand bloke said, oh, nothing's wrong, and I'm still ten foot tall and bulletproof even though I'm 50. And Yeah. I remember his wife just booting him under the table and said, what are you talking about? You had prostate cancer last year. I was like, why didn't you contact us? And they're like, oh, we didn't think it was serious enough. We didn't think we could claim. So, well, let's get some, you know, backdated information. Let's run through the process, and sure enough, we had a trauma insurance payment paid for him.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n33:51\r\nMaybe a little bit late, but better late than never, and the timing worked out well for his daughter because he funded their wedding as a result of getting the payment. So,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n33:59\r\nyeah, no. That that was a good thing to be part of. Then. Yeah. And so is there any general rules for people that do have insurance to reach out to their advisers or their insurance companies\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n34:09\r\nto remind them, like, if that happens, I probably need to to tell them?\r\n\r\nYou\r\n34:13\r\nSo, look, we we certainly try and stay in regular communication with our clients, and we ask those questions as part of the annual review survey that gets sent out. But I would just encourage people to reach out to their advisers and just say, hey. Look. This has happened.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n34:27\r\nWhat are my options? And it might be that it might be too early on in the process, but we can give you some guidance on what not might need to be captured to support a future claim and things to be aware of throughout that process. Even who had broken bones potentially for some people with the type of cover they have. Absolutely. Yeah. So they can be isolated payments,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n34:46\r\nmade to recognize\r\n\r\nYou\r\n34:48\r\nbroken bones and fractures. So, you know, I think you have to be a bit careful with insurance that you can cover absolutely everything under the sun, and you can cover yourself up to the eyeballs. And I'm really honest with this, but you actually need to pair it back and go, this is plan b sort of stuff. We don't wanna set it up so it's gonna financially\r\n\r\nYou\r\n35:07\r\nenrich you. We're just making sure that financially, you're still gonna be in a really good place even if something unexpected\r\n\r\nYou\r\n35:14\r\narises. So as I said earlier, you know, I always run a pragmatic approach to putting the levels of cover in place that I do for my clients because I don't wanna overcomplicate it, and I don't want them paying too much. And how often should people be reviewing this? Is it, you know, as simple as annually, or are we trying to remind people a bit like a will, you know, if you're having kids or you're getting married or something happens, like major events you wanna be reaching out? Yeah. Look. It it's certainly an annual basis.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n35:41\r\nAt a minimum, I would encourage.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n35:44\r\nNot enough, in my view, changes over a six month period of time to dictate having a review at that stage.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n35:51\r\nAnd it might even be that clients just don't wanna engage with us for a couple of years because they just don't feel enough has shifted. You know? They've set up a brand new mortgage. They've paid down $20,000\r\n\r\nYou\r\n36:01\r\na debt. They don't see there to be enough value in adjusting the levels of cover at that stage.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n36:06\r\nBut I do say to people as well as, you know, it's it's an open line of communication. You know? Keep us in the loop. We wanna hear about your promotions. We wanna hear about kids coming onto the scene. You know? Like, we're excited for you. You know? We wanna be part of the journey, and let us sort of guide you on what ensure what that means on the insurance side of things. Do we need to increase? Do we need to decrease?\r\n\r\nYou\r\n36:26\r\nBecause\r\n\r\nYou\r\n36:28\r\nwe don't want to always just keep putting more cover in place, and there's variables that'll happen for some people, and this certainly doesn't apply to everybody, but they might have received an unexpected inheritance or there might have been some other sort of windfall that has come through.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n36:43\r\nYou probably don't need as much insurance anymore because you've been able to bolster your own personal position,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n36:48\r\nand Yeah. Your risk has been decreased.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n36:51\r\nI suppose you could have an an inheritance, for instance, and all of a sudden that completely changes your need for different types of insurance. 100%. Yeah. So\r\n\r\nYou\r\n37:00\r\neverything's an evolving picture, and insurance isn't a static thing. It's certainly not a sit and forget.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n37:06\r\nYou know, just engage with your advisers. I think, for the most part, we're all pretty good sort of people, and and we are just genuinely there to help you and guide you on something that you're probably not an expert in. And and that's where the trap, I think, it falls in that robo advice as people have gone on think that they've got what they actually needed, but there are some shortfalls, and that's what we need to guide them on. Do you ever end up reviewing some of that robo advice and then Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Have a little bit of time. We enjoy it. Yeah. And it's probably quite similar to some of the, old bank teller advice that was given in the insurance space. You know? Yeah. Ultimately, they were bankers. They weren't insurance advisers. They just didn't understand it in a similar way to a specialist in that field. And quite often, they've been sold lower quality benefits.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n37:52\r\nSo\r\n\r\nYou\r\n37:54\r\npolicies that might not cover a certain amount of conditions or the same level of conditions as some of the more, you know, what I'd refer to as retail insurers might cover.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n38:03\r\nThe levels of cover can be completely out of kilter with what somebody actually wanted.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n38:08\r\nSo\r\n\r\nYou\r\n38:09\r\nthe robo advice, the bank advice, it's always been a bit tricky, and we we certainly enjoy reviewing those policies and putting people back on on the path of what they actually need. Nice. So if anyone's ever had robo advice or basically over the counter\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n38:22\r\nbanking advice in the insurance space, probably much like KiwiSaver as well, probably worth\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n38:27\r\ngetting an adviser just to have a look at it. You don't even have to sign on, but, gee, wouldn't you rather know? Absolutely. And there's no cost to the client to engage with an adviser\r\n\r\nYou\r\n38:36\r\nto get some initial advice. Yeah.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n38:39\r\nSo we will, you know, gladly run through the process. Ultimately,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n38:43\r\nwe are paid by the insurance company on the completion of a policy, so there's no additional cost to you.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n38:49\r\nWe're not gonna send you out some hidden invoice that we're not disclosing. It's it's not the aim of the game. I think in your space, you even have to declare what you're potentially making on a policy. Right? So we're completely transparent on the process, and, you know, we don't hide\r\n\r\nYou\r\n39:03\r\nwhat what's available to us.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n39:05\r\nBut\r\n\r\nYou\r\n39:06\r\nit's a start of a good faith relationship with your adviser with an insurance company. So why not be transparent right from the outset so everybody knows what the playing field is? Yeah. Going back to what you're saying before, mate, about the cost of health increasing. So\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n39:20\r\nbecause I think well, yeah, you'd be better to answer this. Do you think that\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n39:25\r\na lot of New Zealanders don't actually realize how expensive an operation is or a medical procedure even once you start layering layering in an anesthetist,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n39:34\r\nand just how expensive those people are Yeah. And just a bit blase of, like, oh, well, she'll be right. Yeah. I think there's there's probably a lot of misconception, and and some of that might be driven by the fact that we do have a good public system and it has been so reliable for such a long time. But I think people's eyes are starting to open to what the true expenses\r\n\r\nYou\r\n39:53\r\nassociated to some of these procedures are now. Yeah. And we've gotta look past just\r\n\r\nYou\r\n39:58\r\nsurgical expenses. There are other unrelated costs, particularly in that cancer space around getting really good access to nonpharmac\r\n\r\nYou\r\n40:05\r\nregulated medicines that can really support\r\n\r\nYou\r\n40:08\r\npostoperative care, extend quality of life. But those drugs don't have any government subsidy at the moment. They're often privately funded,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n40:17\r\nand those drugs can be wildly expensive in some cases. And Yeah. You know, I've had clients who have needed them. They've been as much as $10,000\r\n\r\nYou\r\n40:24\r\na week. So Wow. Just financially unmanageable\r\n\r\nYou\r\n40:27\r\nfor people who don't have these plans in place, and it's those people who are then having to sell the family home and sell the cars to try and fund treatment to actually prolong their life, which is horrible to see. Yeah. That's why it's like anything we hope that it's not gonna happen to us, but, you know, this is what this whole space is designed to do is derisk it if it does happen to us. Yeah. Absolutely. And, you know, if we if we were specifically referred to that trauma benefit,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n40:54\r\nlike, we know that the average male actually claims at age 42 and the average female claims at 44. So\r\n\r\nYou\r\n41:01\r\nsome of these claim points aren't, you know, just for our sort of parents' generation, the 50, 60 year olds and older out there. It's it's happening to all age spectrums.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n41:12\r\nYeah. Last year, I had a claim for a three year old who was having some\r\n\r\nYou\r\n41:16\r\nserious complications with respiratory issues and had to spend an extended period of time in intensive care.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n41:22\r\nBut, you know, at nearly 40 now myself, we're starting to see our friends get impacted by them. I've had a friend of mine who's at 38\r\n\r\nYou\r\n41:30\r\nwho had an\r\n\r\nYou\r\n41:32\r\na stroke, and that potentially was gonna take him out of work for the rest of his life. So amazing to sort of see how these events are starting to creep into\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n41:42\r\nall wage spans. I suppose when we're in our early twenties, we're like, ah, no. Don't need to worry about that stuff. Just like anything. Don't need to worry about retirement.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n41:49\r\nNothing. Life's good. Yeah. Yeah. And then it starts to creep on you up on you real quick. Yeah. It does. And it becomes more real when you've got people who become financially reliant on you, whether it's a partner, whether it's children,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n42:01\r\nwhether it's\r\n\r\nYou\r\n42:05\r\nthe bank. Yeah. Yeah. Life does get complicated, so we wanna try and take some of that complication out of it and put in protection.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n42:10\r\nI was quite lucky. I had a employer and boss that sort of,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n42:14\r\npointed me in the direction of learning about insurance at a younger age, and\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n42:19\r\nI've just always had it since my my early twenties and then got to a stage where I didn't have property. So I didn't even really need it, but\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n42:26\r\nI could then make the decision of do I want to to keep this, and it wasn't the sort of amount of money that I'm like, nah. Like, I just purely, you know, can't afford this. But I'd imagine there's probably some people out there that go, well, I don't wanna pay that because then they,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n42:39\r\nyou know, wanna try and save it themselves or do that sort of thing\r\n\r\nYou\r\n42:44\r\nself insure. Yeah. It's self insuring as as a thing, and, you know, I'm not opposed to it, but it's about having things in balance.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n42:51\r\nBut going back to your earlier point there, you know, we're starting to see more and more corporates and bigger businesses start to implement these life insurance and medical insurance options for their staff.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n43:01\r\nAnd for those businesses, it's a great retention tool for being able to,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n43:06\r\nkeep\r\n\r\nYou\r\n43:07\r\nreally loyal staff to them. It attracts new people into their businesses as well.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n43:13\r\nAnd, fundamentally, I think that that starts educating\r\n\r\nYou\r\n43:16\r\nyounger people coming through because we're ultimately an underinsured\r\n\r\nYou\r\n43:20\r\nmarket.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n43:20\r\nAnd, you know As a nation? As a nation. And, like, you know, my parents certainly didn't educate me on the value of life insurance, something that I learned as time went by. And I've obviously chosen it now as my career and and and ultimately where my passion lies. But Yeah.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n43:35\r\nThe exposure to this\r\n\r\nYou\r\n43:37\r\nis pretty minimal. Like, unless somebody's told you to go and take it out, and typically it was the bank when you got your first mortgage,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n43:44\r\nup to from age zero to that point, there's nobody else going, time to take out some life insurance or get income protection in place. So,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n43:52\r\nI think that the corporates and bigger businesses in the market do have a responsibility\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n43:56\r\nto their staff to be putting these benefits in place. And is that something you do? So say an employer reaches out to you and says, hey. Can you come and educate our team on some of these types of insurance? You go into into businesses and give them a hand? Yeah. Absolutely. So quite often, we'll actually try and run sort of financial programs that we're working with those businesses.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n44:14\r\nWe can talk about mortgages, and we get in brokers to discuss that. We get in KiwiSaver specialist to make sure that they're getting the best value out of long term retirement savings, and then we bring in an insurance conversation.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n44:25\r\nAnd whether that's gonna be individual policies that are managed directly with, you know, new clients or if it's with the business itself to put in layers to their offering to staff. Yeah. Yeah. But it's absolutely a space that we operate in and and really enjoy working in. So if you, say that we're under insured as a nation, any data on, like, percentage of kiwis that are covered versus other countries and stuff like that? Yeah. So if if we look at one of the biggest insurance companies in the market who who currently sort of owns about 45%\r\n\r\nYou\r\n44:54\r\nof market share,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n44:56\r\nthey've got about 800,000\r\n\r\nYou\r\n44:57\r\npolicies in place.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n44:59\r\nWow. So\r\n\r\nYou\r\n45:01\r\nwe could sort of say that the other four main insurance companies\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n45:05\r\nwould equate to sort of a similar value. So we could say there's around sort of a million and a half at an estimate policies in in the market at the moment. Yeah. And is that across, like, health life, income protection, etcetera. When you talk about health insurance, is that, you know, that seems to be really popular at the moment around, I pay for x y z insurance, and I can get a massage, and I can have my teeth covered as well once a year and what whatnot. Is that health insurance? Yeah. Absolutely. So,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n45:30\r\nyou know, once again, having a pragmatic approach, particularly with medical insurance, there are a lot of add ons that can typically go into those policies, and you do need to weigh up if it's the right add on for you or if we're mainly\r\n\r\nYou\r\n45:43\r\nfocusing the plan around costs that are gonna be financially unmanageable.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n45:47\r\nYeah. But, certainly, as it as we talked about before, there are these wellness programs coming out by insurers that are, you know, really motivating people to stay active, be proactive about their health, get annual health checks. And if you're a part of those programs, they're amazing. They they actually give you discounts on your insurance premiums. And the more active that you are and the more engaged that you are, the more discount you can actually add to your policy. And in turn, they'll start to give you vouchers, whether that's for movie tickets or groceries. So you can actually get your insurance policy something that is a necessity,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n46:19\r\nactually subsidizing other parts of your life too. So Yeah. It's a great program. It's such an interesting space there because there's so many moving parts. And just reminded the conversation,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n46:28\r\nthat we've had previously where you said to me, oh, you could increase your excess and then that's gonna decrease your premium. So excess being if the insurance is to be claimed that you are having to let go of a lump sum of money, but then your insurance payments, the premium part is actually decreasing.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n46:45\r\nRight? Yeah. And I think it's probably\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n46:47\r\nagain, it's one of those things that you then have to think about because you might get yourself to a point where you're financially sweet to cover a higher amount of excess,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n46:55\r\nand then you don't need to be paying the same level of premium. Correct. Yeah. So it's it's all about finding out what the balance is for an individual. Yeah. But, you know, I'm very pro on having high levels high level excesses\r\n\r\nYou\r\n47:07\r\nbecause we wanna reduce the premiums while you're not using it, but we just need to be make sure that you're actually in a comfortable position to manage the Yeah. Thousand, $2,000 excess when that procedure pops up.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n47:19\r\nAnd have you noticed people,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n47:22\r\ncanceling their insurance or hearing that in in the industry with just how tricky it's been out there financially?\r\n\r\nYou\r\n47:28\r\nLook. There's there's a lot of hurt out there at the moment, and and we do we're exposed to some of them. But, actually, during these tough times, people will actually put more value in their insurance.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n47:40\r\nSo\r\n\r\nYou\r\n47:42\r\nwhat what the better strategy is to work with your adviser to see if there are ways of potentially suspending parts of the policy,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n47:49\r\ngoing premium holidays, and actually trying to find work around so you can still retain the policy.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n47:54\r\nMaybe it's just a matter of going, actually, our situation's changed, and we don't need the same levels of cover. Can we look to review it and adjust that? And that's the way that we manage premiums so we can retain it and hold on to it for the future.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n48:06\r\nBecause the risk is,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n48:08\r\npotentially, if you're in your forties or fifties and you go to cancel it, and then the economic times get better for you and you're back in secure jobs and steady income and you go, let's take the policy out again, well, you might have had a whole lot of health conditions that have popped up since you originally took out that policy\r\n\r\nYou\r\n48:24\r\nthat then limits your ability to take the policy out again in the future. So you need to be very mindful\r\n\r\nYou\r\n48:30\r\nwhen you are making big decisions like canceling a policy because they're permanent.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n48:35\r\nYeah. So alterations are certainly a better approach. Yeah. So let's, take out a policy and I'm 20 right, and then all of a sudden, 28, I have a bit of a back issue, but I cancel my insurance.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n48:46\r\nProbably by the time I'm at 32, when I go, right, I can afford to do it again, I'm gonna be excluded for things around my back because I then have to disclose that I've had that. That's right. And and, you know, it's a back example. That's the number one claimant for income protection policy. So,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n49:02\r\nyou you do need to be cautious of, as I say, those cancellations.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n49:06\r\nBut, equally,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n49:07\r\nanother way is to look at a policy that might have been in place for a number of years. Has it actually got exclusions on it or premium loadings that can now be reviewed based on your health profile\r\n\r\nYou\r\n49:18\r\nimproving. Like, they're not\r\n\r\nYou\r\n49:20\r\na permanent\r\n\r\nYou\r\n49:21\r\nfixture. There are ways that we can review it. Might even be you need to change provider to have it reconsidered, which is sort of, once again, plan b in that space. But there's always different angles that can be played, and just getting some good advice around it is is a really smart option. This is such a deep,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n49:39\r\nspace to try and figure out yourself. Right? Yeah. Look. If it's not the language that you're used to speaking in, you can see how people get lost, and that's why we try and take our time on on our process.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n49:51\r\nI remember when I first started in the industry, it was we meet once, we gather some information, we give you the recommendations, and here's the applications.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n49:58\r\nI mean, it's it's oversimplifying it a little, but, certainly, now I say to people, look. If this takes two meetings or if it takes 10 meetings, it doesn't matter. I've got all the time. We just need to make sure that you're comfortable with what goes in place. Because, ultimately, the adviser's not the one that's paying the premiums, but they're also not the beneficiary of that policy. So we need to make sure that everybody's comfortable with the plan that's going in place.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n50:21\r\nWhat word of warning would you have for those people who think, right, I'm not gonna pay my insurance, and I'm gonna put that money aside myself. And and is it really worth it? It's too or a little bit too expensive now.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n50:33\r\nLook. I think it's a really good plan if you can keep putting that money aside, and you don't have any health issues, and you're thirty, forty years down the track, and your little pot's no longer a little pot. It's a big pot of money, and and and that sort of serves you better for retirement. But it's it's more of the what if factor, and that's why I say run a pragmatic approach to what levels go in place to try and manage those premiums and just be a bit sensible about what you're doing from an insurance standpoint because\r\n\r\nYou\r\n51:00\r\nnot everybody's got the money to be able to financially support themselves for the rest of their life if they're out of work tomorrow, and they don't necessarily have the family support to make that happen either. So who's gonna look after you? What's your life gonna look like if you don't have a plan b in place?\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n51:15\r\nIt's I can see why people get there because they're looking for a way to cut some costs out of their life, or they learn, oh, yeah. I heard that insurance companies just take that money and they invest it themselves, and that's what they do. But,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n51:27\r\nlike, what happens if you do die or get cancer or something like that in that first two years or even probably like the first ten? You've got to run some math on okay. Just doesn't work. Yeah. I was gonna say, how many people do you actually see come up with that strategy and go, you know what? And then come back to you and go,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n51:42\r\nJohnny, guess what? I did cancel that in beautiful. I just got an,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n51:45\r\ncancer diagnosis, but fuck you, mate. I've got $300 stacked aside. Like, I'd imagine most people would be like, I'm gonna build a deck. I'm gonna do x, y, zed, and wouldn't actually leave it there. Yeah. Look. I think for most people, they don't have the discipline of actually putting that money into an investment and then seeing it through for it to become tangible. So,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n52:03\r\neverything in balance. And if your approach is to self insure some of it, great. You know? Don't take out something you don't need,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n52:11\r\nbut think about what the downside risk is. Can you put a smaller amount of cover in place and have it only there for ten years while you're still building that investment account? And in ten years' time, let's reassess it. If you don't need it, let's cancel it. Like, let let's be pragmatic about it. No. So what you're basically saying is, like, it's you don't have to go the full hog, and there could be there's different options where, you know, you might take one policy compared to three, etcetera, and then just keep adjusting as you go. Yeah. And it might be that you run a staged approach to it.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n52:40\r\nSo, you know, I appreciate particularly with clients moving into their first home, like budgets are put under pressure, and then you've got all your moving costs and setup costs. So putting the insurance,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n52:50\r\npiece into the budget can be very challenging for people. I get that.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n52:55\r\nBut look at where the support would potentially be for you. Like, we do still have the public system, so that is your fallback in that particular space. But if you're out of work, if you've been face faced with a major health condition,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n53:07\r\nfinancially, how are you gonna manage that? Perhaps short term, let's just get some lower levels of life cover in place. Let's put in a bit of trauma cover so we at least know you've got something.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n53:17\r\nAnd if that day does come along, at least you're gonna have some financial breathing space before you're forced to sell the property, before you're selling off your car and all the toys that you might have in the background. Yeah.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n53:28\r\nBecause if you're forced into selling a property, you're not gonna get a premium for it. Murphy's Law will say it's a bad market, and it's a bad time to sell the property. Factor in real estate fees, and all of a sudden, if you'd only recently bought that house, you're not even getting your deposit money back. You've just derisked it because you paid the bank off, but you actually haven't had any real capital that's gonna support you at that point in time. And what about with the introduction of KiwiSaver and KiwiSaver getting a bit larger? Are that some of the conversations you've having with older clients or clients that have gone through that journey where they go, you know what, Johnny? We don't actually need some of these policies anymore because we've got a pot of 600 g sitting there in KiwiSaver or an investment fund and things like that. Yeah. Absolutely. And and great that we love seeing that, you know, where we can minimize insurance and be practical about it. That's what we're very pro on.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n54:14\r\nWhere we need to be a bit mindful is where they're saying that they've got a lot of wealth tied up and they're in assets then aren't overly liquid.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n54:22\r\nYeah. Property. Work property. Yeah. But even even investments to the most part, like, there can be some pretty serious break costs, or you might not get a very good return if you're having to pull that money out in a short time frame. It might still be that it's quite practical and sensible to have a level of insurance in place so you know that you've always got,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n54:40\r\nyou know, your, plan b there while you're actually liquidating some of those assets on a timeline that realizes the most value out of them. Yeah. It's interesting. I'd imagine that probably some people, once they get to that stage, they would see the cost of some of these policies and go, you know what? It's actually not that bad. I'm just gonna continue to pay it, and then they sort of end up accumulating more wealth if it's triggered. Yeah. And, like, I've got a client who's\r\n\r\nYou\r\n55:04\r\nexceptionally wealthy. They've got a huge amount of assets that sit in the background, but he know his he knows his household running expenses are massive. Yeah. And it's gonna take a long time for his wife and children to get access to his assets by the time they've gone through the courts and managed through the wills and trusts and all the complications involved in that. So he still keeps a million dollar life insurance policy, and it's a nominal cost for him to know that his wife's gonna have immediate access to funds\r\n\r\nYou\r\n55:30\r\nwhile she works through that process to get the as assets transferred to her.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n55:34\r\nDifferent different level of thinking, isn't it? Different level of thinking, and it's all proportionate to people's positions, though. And it's something you've gotta remind yourself of as an adviser is everybody's different. Everybody's needs are different. So there's no one size fits all approach. And that's the key for people to actually engage with the space and realize it's it doesn't need to be scary or it doesn't need to be slimy or salesy or whatever they've preconceived ideas be. It's basically,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n55:59\r\nI need help understanding my situation from somebody who has the expertise. Yeah. Like, we're not gonna ever sit there and say that you're wrong, but we might guide you on saying, hey. Look. I get the logic of trying to manage premium removing these particular benefits, but we still need to keep this in as a base plan. What would you say to those people who are listening and are thinking about maybe getting into the insurance industry for a career? Yeah. Look. You're likely probably a careers adviser in the space now after a decade. Well, maybe give me a call because we're always looking for good staff members. So,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n56:29\r\nbut, look, it it's a great industry\r\n\r\nYou\r\n56:31\r\nto join. It's very rewarding.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n56:34\r\nYeah. So, look, I I would sort of welcome people into the industry. I we welcome advisers. I feel like there aren't enough of us to go around. We need to be building out\r\n\r\nYou\r\n56:44\r\nour space and spreading the word wider and further.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n56:48\r\nBut it's a rewarding industry that you can build a business off the back of helping people. So it's a way that you can everybody can get what gets what they need. Before we go, mate, any gnarly stories or any still favorite stories from your your decade in the game?\r\n\r\nYou\r\n57:02\r\nWell,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n57:03\r\na story that I touched on earlier is\r\n\r\nYou\r\n57:07\r\nmy friend who had the stroke. It was a tricky situation. He'd actually been to a chiropractor and had a neck adjustment, and he had a very rare\r\n\r\nYou\r\n57:15\r\noutcome from that adjustment, which was a stroke. So he literally drove there, was taken to the, ambulance in a hospital afterwards,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n57:23\r\nBut this particular guy was sitting on some applications that we have been following up for about eighteen months, and he refers to it as the claim that cost him a million dollars because that was an increase that we were looking to make to a part of his policy.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n57:36\r\nFortunately, he already had some very good cover in place, so he was well supported.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n57:42\r\nBut, you know, while the conversation's live, you know, action it. Don't let it drag on too long Yeah. Is a key takeaway from that.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n57:51\r\nJust trying to think of some other good stories. It's always the ones in the media we see, right, where it's like someone cancels the policy and then three days later. I'd imagine that probably happens more than people realize, but\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n58:01\r\nit's just it's such a good story. But statistically\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n58:05\r\nwell, you know, such a good story to sell attention, but statistically,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n58:08\r\nthat probably, you know, happens quite often. Yeah. Look. Certainly, we encourage our clients who have been long standing clients of ours, and we've got very good personal relationships or or don't for that matter. But if they are looking to cancel their policies outright, we do encourage them to go and get a general health checkup with their GP. Go and run a set of bloods.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n58:27\r\nLook. The policy's gonna stay in place for maybe another month. You might have to manage another month's worth of premium, but it was worth it in case something\r\n\r\nYou\r\n58:34\r\ncame from that console Yeah. And and there was gonna actually be a claimable event or there were starting to be markers\r\n\r\nYou\r\n58:41\r\nthat might lead to there being a claimable event, you know, within a short timeline.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n58:45\r\nOh, you just scared the shit out of me going to the chiropractor the next time. Yeah.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n58:49\r\nWe didn't even really touch on the business side of things. So in terms of some of that cover, you I'm sure you mean you still do, like, quite a bit in that space for business owners? Yeah. So the conversation just changes from it being around individuals and families to it being individuals and their business partners. Yeah. And what we see in the business space is, you know, quite often,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n59:09\r\ncouple of mates have got together, they've built a business out of their back bedroom, and all of a sudden, that's turned into something that is worth quite a lot of money. But they don't personally have the available funds to manage a situation where the business partner passes away, and they're now in business with the wife or the husband, and all the wife or husband's now asking for their shares to be bought out at some sort of premium rate. Yeah. And so we try to manage that through insurance with\r\n\r\nYou\r\n59:35\r\nbenefits like life insurance and total and permanent disability cover.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n59:39\r\nAnd then there's also other ways that we can start to focus on business type clients where\r\n\r\nYou\r\n59:46\r\nthey might be key stakeholders in the business and vital to the operation.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n59:50\r\nWhat happens if they're taken out of work? How do we make sure that business is gonna keep running, and how are we gonna make sure it's financially supported?\r\n\r\nYou\r\n59:57\r\nAnd there's effectively income protection type policies for businesses that allow for locums to go in, work in the business, make sure it keeps operating, make sure everybody else stays employed and everything keeps ticking over in the similar sort of capacity\r\n\r\nYou\r\n60:11\r\nwhile one of those stakeholders is out of work focusing on their recovery program and until they get back. Definitely something that people that are in business with somebody else should probably be thinking about. Right? Because\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n60:23\r\nall of a sudden, they could find themselves in a position where they're now buying back the shares in the business that they helped build or borrowing against their property,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n60:31\r\nto to clear out the the spouse of the business partner and going, holy shit. How did all this happen all of a sudden? And and it's not always your intention to go into business with your business partner's spouse, right, or their children, and that can quite often become very complicated.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n60:45\r\nAnd then there's a different opinions, and it just means that the business fight value might actually rapidly\r\n\r\nYou\r\n60:51\r\ndecrease over time. So can a plan be created so if certain events are triggered, no one outcomes can be achieved, and then everybody's on the same program? You know, families are getting taken care of, business partners are being cared for,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n61:05\r\nand it's just a known quantity.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n61:07\r\nNice, mate. Well, who would have thought that insurance isn't as boring as accounting?\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n61:12\r\nAnd we can run through it out there quickly. Yeah. Awesome, mate. Thanks for having me in. Really appreciate it. So people wanna find you, Johnny. Where do they need to go if they need to get in touch?\r\n\r\nYou\r\n61:21\r\nLook. Best to look up our website, which is Insurance Market Collective.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n61:24\r\nReach out to me directly on Instagram. It's probably a good approach. Just johnny at winstone, all one word. Yeah. Hopefully, you can tag me at the end of this pod, mate. Yeah. No worries.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n61:34\r\nBut yeah. LinkedIn.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n61:35\r\nLinkedIn is always a good approach to.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n61:37\r\nSo yeah. And email address?\r\n\r\nYou\r\n61:40\r\nJust j.winstone@insurance-market.co.nz.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n61:45\r\nCool. I'll chuck some details into the show notes if people do need help in this space.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n61:50\r\nThanks again, mate. And I'm sure we'll have to, kick around some of these other topics because it's a it's a very big space and to be you know, to try and summarize all the work you've done in the last decade in in one year, doesn't do it justice. But I'm sure that would have got people thinking a little bit more about some of the things that they've probably been putting off. Yeah. Excellent, mate. Well, really appreciate you having me in, and it's great to actually be sitting in the chair and be part of the community, mate. You've probably listened to how many episodes now? Too many, buddy. Stick them up for us. Probably too many, mate, but they're always valuable, so I appreciate it. Brilliant.", "guardrails": "Do: keep claims factual, avoid financial advice, be clear and compliant.\nDon't: invent stats, promise outcomes, imply endorsements.", "scope": "In scope: Centastone capability demo; regulated marketing; insurance advisory context.\nOut of scope: legal advice; pricing guarantees.", "knowledgeContext": "# Compliance guardrails + disclaimers — NZ_FMA_Compliance_Guardrails_for_Insurance_and_KiwiSaver_Marketing\nNZ Insurance & KiwiSaver Advice - Compliance Guardrails for Marketing (FMA-led)\n\n\n\n Compliance obligations for NZ insurance, risk,\n and KiwiSaver advice marketing\n Practical guardrails for advisers, brokers, and Financial Advice Providers (FAPs) to keep marketing, social\n posts, ads, and internal processes aligned with FMA expectations and the Financial Markets Conduct Act\n (FMC Act).\n\n Key summary - non-negotiables\n\n • Treat all marketing as a regulated 'advertisement' if it is intended to promote an offer or encourage\n uptake; the definition is broad. [1]\n\n • Do not mislead, omit key qualifiers, or create a 'too-good-to-be-true' overall impression. Intention does not\n matter. [1][2][7]\n\n • Any claim about returns, savings, fees, rankings, service outcomes, or comparisons must be current,\n accurate, and able to be substantiated. Avoid 'unsubstantiated representations'. [1][2][7]\n\n • Balance risk and reward; do not highlight benefits while hiding risks in fine print or after a click. [1][2]\n\n • Be careful on content-limited platforms (short videos, short captions): if you cannot include necessary\n context and risk information, do not run the ad there. [1]\n\n • Online content can cross the line into regulated financial advice if it recommends specific products or tells\n someone what to do with their money. Disclaimers alone will not fix unsuitable content. [3][6]\n\n • KiwiSaver: prompt customers to consider pros/cons of switching and ensure incentives do not drive poor\n decisions. [4]\n\n • Ensure required disclosures are available and accessible (licensing, scope, fees, commissions, conflicts,\n complaints). [5][8]\n\n\n\n 1. Who this applies to\n This document is written for NZ insurance brokers/advisers, KiwiSaver advisers, and the organisations that\n employ or contract them (FAPs). It focuses on obligations and expectations relevant to advertising and client\n communications, because those are the highest-risk areas for an AI marketing agent.\n\n\n 2. Primary regulatory sources (marketing-relevant)\n • Financial Markets Conduct Act 2013 (FMC Act) - Part 2 'fair dealing' rules apply widely to financial\n products and services; the FMA can also use stop orders to stop advertising that is likely to confuse. [2][7]\n\n • FMA guidance on advertising offers of financial products - explains how the FMA interprets fair dealing in\n advertising and what 'good' looks like. [1]\n\n • Financial Advice Code (Code of Professional Conduct for Financial Advice Services) - minimum\n standards for people giving regulated financial advice (treat fairly, integrity, suitability, understanding,\n privacy). [3]\n\n • Disclosure regime for regulated financial advice - required disclosures to retail clients at different stages\n (public, initial, and when giving advice). [5][8]\n\n • KiwiSaver sales and advice guidance - includes incentives and switching/transfer behaviour. [4]\n\n\n\nGenerated 2026-02-10 | Internal guardrails (not legal advice) Page 1\n\fNZ Insurance & KiwiSaver Advice - Compliance Guardrails for Marketing (FMA-led)\n\n\n • Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) Financial Advertising Code - industry advertising standards that sit\n alongside legal obligations. [9]\n\n\n 3. What advisers can and cannot do in marketing\n Core rule: marketing must not create a misleading or confusing overall impression. The 'overall impression'\n matters more than any single sentence or disclaimer, and intent is irrelevant. [1][2]\n\n 3.1 Fair dealing - practical 'can / cannot' checklist\n Can\n\n • Use plain language that a typical retail customer would understand.\n\n • Present key limits and conditions alongside the benefit (not hidden after a click).\n\n • Use accurate, current facts; keep evidence on file for every factual claim.\n\n • Use balanced statements about returns and risks; include fees and assumptions where relevant.\n\n • Use testimonials only if representative, not cherry-picked, and not implying guaranteed outcomes; make\n incentives/paid partnerships obvious.\n\n Cannot\n\n • Imply guarantees of returns, acceptance, or savings when outcomes depend on underwriting, eligibility,\n market performance, or assumptions.\n\n • Promote high returns or big savings without equally prominent risk/limitations/fees context.\n\n • Use absolute superlatives ('best', 'cheapest', 'No.1') without robust, current substantiation and clear basis\n for comparison.\n\n • Use fine print to contradict the headline claim.\n\n • Use urgency/pressure tactics or unsolicited meeting style approaches to push an offer.\n\n 3.2 Claims must be substantiated (evidence file)\n The FMC Act prohibits 'unsubstantiated representations' and false or misleading representations. In practice:\n keep an evidence pack for each campaign (source data, date captured, methodology, assumptions, and\n approval sign-off). [1][2][7]\n\n • Examples of claims needing evidence: premium savings, 'we handle claims faster', acceptance rates,\n 'X% cheaper', performance rankings, fee comparisons, ESG claims, tax outcomes, or customer outcome\n claims.\n\n • Evidence must match what the consumer will infer from the ad (not a narrower internal definition). [1]\n\n • Update or withdraw claims when the evidence becomes stale (e.g., pricing or performance changes).\n\n 3.3 Comparisons (providers, policies, funds)\n Comparisons are high-risk because consumers may assume like-for-like. Only compare comparable\n products/features, and explain what is included/excluded. Avoid comparing dissimilar products or using\n selective timeframes. [1][2]\n\n • State the comparison basis: date, sample size, insurers/funds included, and key assumptions.\n\n • Do not present 'average premium' or 'typical savings' as universal; use ranges and qualifiers.\n\n • Where relevant, prompt customers to review a Product Disclosure Statement (PDS) or official fund\n information before deciding.\n\n 3.4 Content-limited platforms (short video, short captions, banners)\n\n\n\nGenerated 2026-02-10 | Internal guardrails (not legal advice) Page 2\n\fNZ Insurance & KiwiSaver Advice - Compliance Guardrails for Marketing (FMA-led)\n\n\n If the medium cannot carry the context a retail client needs (risks, fees, key conditions), the safer choice is\n not to run the ad on that medium or to restructure to a compliant level of detail. FMA guidance explicitly\n addresses content-limited platforms. [1]\n\n\n 4. Where marketing becomes regulated financial advice\n Online marketing can drift into regulated financial advice when it recommends specific products, suggests a\n switch, or tells a person what they should do with their money. The FMA has issued guidance for 'talking\n about money online' because this boundary is often crossed in social content. [6]\n\n Guardrails for an AI agent:\n • Allowed: general education, explanations of concepts, checklists of questions to ask, and calls-to-action\n to book advice (without implying a recommendation).\n\n • Not allowed: 'You should switch to Fund X', 'Move your KiwiSaver now', 'This cover is right for you', or\n any personalised recommendation without an advice process.\n\n • Disclaimers ('this is not advice') do not cure content that is effectively a recommendation; the content\n itself must stay on the safe side. [6]\n\n • Any personalised response to a customer comment/DM should be routed into your regulated advice\n workflow (identity, scope, disclosures, fact-find, suitability). [3][5]\n\n\n 5. Required disclosures in marketing and lead capture\n The disclosure regime is designed so retail clients can understand who is advising them, what advice they\n can expect, and what conflicts/incentives exist. Marketing and websites should make disclosures easy to find\n and not misleading by omission. [5][8]\n\n • Public disclosure (website): FAP name, licence status, services, fees/expenses, commissions/incentives,\n conflicts, and complaints/dispute resolution. [5]\n\n • Initial disclosure (first engagement): scope of advice, fees, incentives, conflicts, and complaints process.\n [5]\n\n • When giving advice: include information needed to evaluate the advice (fees, product/provider\n remuneration, conflicts, limitations, and why the recommendation suits). [3][5]\n\n\n 6. KiwiSaver-specific marketing and advice guardrails\n FMA KiwiSaver guidance covers how providers/advisers should talk to investors, including switching/transfer\n conversations and customer incentives. [4]\n\n 6.1 Switching and transfers\n • Do not market fund switching as a default win. Prompt investors to consider advantages and\n disadvantages, including fees, investment risk, time horizon, and loss of benefits (if any). [4]\n\n • Be cautious using performance tables or 'top fund' claims; explain that past performance is not a reliable\n indicator of future performance and ensure the presentation is not misleading. [1][4]\n\n 6.2 Incentives and promotions\n The FMA expects incentives not to distort decision-making. Incentives should never be the main driver of\n switching or signing up. [4]\n\n • Allowed with care: modest incentives that are clearly disclosed, secondary to the investment decision,\n and paired with prompts to consider pros/cons. [4]\n\n • Not allowed: marketing that creates pressure, hides strings attached, or implies the incentive makes the\n product better for the customer.\n\n\n\nGenerated 2026-02-10 | Internal guardrails (not legal advice) Page 3\n\fNZ Insurance & KiwiSaver Advice - Compliance Guardrails for Marketing (FMA-led)\n\n\n • Always disclose when an influencer/affiliate is paid or rewarded for promotion; treat that as a\n conflict/incentive disclosure. [6][9]\n\n\n 7. AI marketing guardrails: mandatory workflow\n Use this as a 'hard gate' checklist for any AI-generated asset before publication.\n\n 1 Classification: Is this (a) education, (b) brand marketing, (c) product offer/promotion, or (d) advice? If (d)\n or borderline, route to advice workflow and stop. [3][6]\n\n 2 Fair dealing test: What is the overall impression? Could a retail client be misled or confused, even if\n technically true? [1][2]\n\n 3 Substantiation: For every claim, attach evidence (date, source, methodology). If you cannot evidence it,\n delete it. [1][2]\n\n 4 Balance: Are risks, limitations, fees, and key conditions as prominent as benefits? [1][2]\n 5 Comparisons: Are we comparing like-for-like with an explained basis? [1]\n 6 Disclosure: Is licensing/scope/fees/incentives/complaints information accessible from the same journey\n (page, bio link, ad landing page)? [5][8]\n\n 7 KiwiSaver: If the message could prompt switching/transferring, include pros/cons prompts and avoid\n incentive-led framing. [4]\n\n 8 Record: Keep a copy of the final asset, approvals, evidence pack, and target audience/placement details.\n\n\n 8. Quick 'red flag' phrases for AI to avoid\n If any of these appear, require human compliance review and likely rewrite:\n Guaranteed, No risk, Sure thing, Best / cheapest (without evidence), Everyone should, Switch now, Limited time\n (pressure), Approved / endorsed by the government (unless exact and true), Beat the market, Free money.\n\n\n\n\nGenerated 2026-02-10 | Internal guardrails (not legal advice) Page 4\n\f NZ Insurance & KiwiSaver Advice - Compliance Guardrails for Marketing (FMA-led)\n\n\n\n Sources and links\n Use these as primary references when updating guardrails. URLs are provided so an AI agent can fetch\n source material directly.\n\n• [1] FMA (2021) Advertising offers of financial products under the FMC Act - Guidance Note (PDF).\n https://www.fma.govt.nz/assets/Guidance/Advertising-offers-of-financial-products-guidance-note.pdf\n\n• [2] FMA Fair dealing overview page (Part 2 FMC Act + stop orders).\n https://www.fma.govt.nz/business/legislation/fair-dealing/\n\n• [3] Financial Advice Code Committee (2025) Code of Professional Conduct for Financial Advice Services\n (official version, PDF).\n https://financialadvicecode.govt.nz/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/code-2025-official-version.pdf\n\n• [4] FMA (2017) KiwiSaver sales and advice - Guidance page (with PDF).\n https://www.fma.govt.nz/library/guidance-library/kiwisaver-sales-and-advice/\n\n• [5] Legislation NZ: Financial Markets Conduct (Regulated Financial Advice Disclosure) Amendment\n Regulations 2020.\n https://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2020/0132/latest/whole.html\n\n• [6] FMA (2026) Talking about money online (guidance for online content creators).\n https://www.fma.govt.nz/library/articles/talking-about-money-online/\n\n• [7] Legislation NZ: Financial Markets Conduct Act 2013 (Part 2 - fair dealing, incl. ss 19-33).\n https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2013/0069/latest/DLM4090947.html\n\n• [8] FMA (2025) Introductory guide to full Financial Advice Provider licence requirements (PDF).\n https://www.fma.govt.nz/assets/Licensing-guides/Introductory-guide-to-full-licence-requirements.pdf\n\n• [9] Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) Financial Advertising Code.\n https://asa.co.nz/codes/codes/financial-advertising-code/\n\n\n\n\n Generated 2026-02-10 | Internal guardrails (not legal advice) Page 5\n\f\n\n---\n\n# Brand Guidelines — brand\n\f Centa (noun)\n Etymology: Derived from the Latin root for central and centum (“hundred”), symbolising\n the core, the hub, and precision in guidance.\n Definition:\n 1. The point of focus around which everything revolves.\n 2. Figuratively, a source of clarity, direction, and unity.\n\n Stone (noun)\n Etymology: From Old English stān, a universal symbol of endurance and strength.\n Definition:\n 1. A naturally hard solid material, representing durability\n 2. Figuratively, a foundation of stability, resilience, and trust.\n\n\nWe are a trusted financial advisory partner that's central to our clients future\nplanning; guiding across KiwiSaver, insurance and risk.\n\nIt’s a name built on purpose: we are both essential and dependable.\n\f Wordmark\n\n\n\n\n Brandmark\n Tagline\nLOGO\n\f “Building Your Future” is both a promise and a responsibility.\n\n At Centastone, we don’t sell products, we build futures. We do this by placing\n people at the centre of what we do, and by laying down strong, reliable\n foundations in insurance, KiwiSaver, and financial advice.\n\n Just like a cornerstone in architecture, Centastone is the solid start to\n something lasting.\n\n\n\n\nTAGLINE\n\f 90°\n\n\n\n\n 270°\n\n\n\n\n 270°\n 90°\n 90°\n\n\n\n\nBRANDMARK - The Inspiration\n\f In almost all cases the full logo should be used. It combines the brandmark,\n the logo and tagline all in one.\n\n\n\n\nPRIMARY LOGO\n\f Horizontal\n\n\n\n\n Vertical\n\n\n\n\n If the primary logo does not fit, the secondary logo can be used. There is both a horizontal\n and vertical logo, depending on the use.\n If using the tag line is not appropriate, then either of the above logos should be used.\n\n\nSECONDARY LOGO\n\f The supporting logo assets can be used where it is immediately evident you are dealing\n with Centastone. Social Media, Internal Comms or if the logo has already been used,\n are great examples of where these are appropriate.\n\n\nSUPPORTING LOGOS\n\f1. No Keyline 2. Do Not Alter Or Stretch\n\n\n\n\n3. Logo Colours Or Shape Are Not To Be Changed 4. Logo Is Not To Be Edited\n\n\n\n\nLOGO RULES - The Do Not’s\n\f Minimum clearance equal to at least the height of the C should be used around the logo to ensure\n there is clear space.\n\n When presented along side other logos, no logo should be more dominant or suggest a partnership\n outside of the acceptable agreement, as per the AIA example here.\n\n\n\n\nLOGO SPACING\n\f The Centastone Purple “Future Purple” has been carefully\n selected to ensure it represents the Centatsone brand. It\n must be used according the colour codes on this page to\n ensure consistency across all assets.\n\nCOLOUR\n\f FUTURE INDIGO\n\n\n\nTINTS - Adding White\n\n\n\n\nSHADES - Adding Black\n\n\n\n\n 120% 140% 160% BLACK\n\n\n\n\nCOLOUR USE\n\f Headings should\n always capitalised\n\n Sub Headings in\n Title Case\n\n\n\n\nTYPOGRAPHY\n\f CONTRAST CHECKER\n\n\n\n\n COLOUR BLINDNESS\n SIMULATOR\n\n\n\n\n Colour variations in text should be high contrast.\n Be aware that this colour can be perceived\n differently to those with colour blindness. High\n contrast ensures it is easy to read by all.\n\n\nTYPOGRAPHY & COLOUR\n\f The Centastone pattern was designed to create visual\n interest for the brand. It is made by repeating the brand\n mark. It should only be used in the above colours, in a full\n shape.\n\n\nPATTERN\n\f CENTASTONE\n We’re deeply invested in the communities we serve, Our clients count on us to safeguard what matters\n building relationships that go beyond policies to most, and we earn that trust through consistent,\n create lasting positive impact. reliable service.\n\n\n\n Every decision we make starts with our clients We believe in clear, honest communication, no hidden\n needs, ensuring protection and peace of mind at terms, no surprises, just straightforward insurance you\n every stage of life. can understand.\n\n\n\n With years of proven expertise and integrity, we stand We harness the latest tools to make insurance simpler,\n behind our advice, our products, and our promises. faster, and more accessible, without losing the human\n touch.\n\n\nVALUES - The T’s and C’s\n\f We communicate in plain, concise language that is easy to\n understand.\n\n\n Every interaction is polite, respectful, and considerate of the\n recipient’s time.\n\n\n We respond promptly, keeping clients informed without\n unnecessary delays.\n\n\n Our messages are complete, accurate, and leave no\n unanswered questions.\n\nCOMMUNICATION - The T’s & C’s\n\fPRESENTATION - The T’s & C’s\n\fWe listen attentively, value every perspective, and communicate in a way that honours our clients\nand their experiences.\n\n\nWe understand that insurance often comes at important life moments, and we speak with care,\ncompassion, and understanding.\n\n\nOur language is warm, clear, and free of jargon, making it easy for anyone to start a conversation\nwith us.\n\n\nWe uphold the highest standards in our communication, ensuring accuracy, clarity, and reliability in\nevery interaction.\n\nTONE OF VOICE\n\f\f\n\n---\n\n# Brand Guidelines — Brand Guidelines\n\n\n---\n\n# Brand Guidelines — \n" } }

{ "seed": 1311124012, "pick": "Conversion-focused with strong CTA.", "input": { "agentName": "Social Editor", "agentRole": "LinkedIn + carousel producer", "agentPrompt": "Turn the article/ingredients into LinkedIn-ready drafts and a carousel script. Keep claims compliant; keep copy tight.", "outputSpec": "Deliverable must include:\n- LinkedIn short (<=1200 chars)\n- LinkedIn long (<=2500 chars)\n- 7-slide carousel script (each slide <= 240 chars)\n- 3 myth-vs-reality posts\n- CTA + disclaimer line", "instruction": "Produce LinkedIn drafts + carousel + myth-vs-reality.", "transcript": "\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n00:00\r\nToday, we're gonna be talking the sexy and exciting topic of insurance. Now don't switch this off just because we're gonna be talking about insurance because we've got Johnny Winstone\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n00:09\r\nin to tell us all of the things we want to know to learn more about this exciting space, mate. A man that I believe has been in the industry for over a decade now. Coming up to it. Yeah. Yeah. What drew you to the insurance industry originally? Well, mate, it was actually, with a bit of family encouragement. So my wife's father,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n00:26\r\nhas been in the industry for close to forty years now. His father, his grandfather were also in the space. Wow. And I was at a bit of a crossroads about ten years ago, and,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n00:36\r\nI was looking at sort of two fields to get into. One was actually to look at going into supermarkets, and then the other was going into insurance.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n00:42\r\nAnd so I went out and ghosted him for a couple of days. He was able to show me his process, what he does, how he interacts with people, and it just started to resonate with me. And\r\n\r\nYou\r\n00:52\r\nthe thing that I was looking for out of my career was to be able to provide value to people on an ongoing basis, and I truly see that our personal insurance offering is a way that we can achieve that, great way of meeting people, and, you know, an amazing way to build a business and lifestyle off the back of it. Yeah. Nice. So fast forward to today then, you know, ten years of doing this, how many how many clients have you got? You're a very busy man. Yeah. Look. The each day is pretty hectic, but, we wouldn't change anything about that.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n01:19\r\nSo we're managing a client base of about 6,000 people now. Yeah. So some of that's come through acquisition, and then a lot have come through my own network, individual clients that I've brought on, but always looking to grow into the future. And now I'm getting a big kick out of seeing other advisers join me on the journey and seeing them start to build their client bases. So each day it grows and gets more exciting. What's changed from ten years ago in the insurance space to now? Like, what would I'm I'd imagine Heaps has, but what are the sort of main things that you've seen in that time? In the industry? Yeah.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n01:50\r\nLook. I think we're starting to see this real influx of robo advice,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n01:54\r\ncome in, which is online provided advice for clients going in, signing up to policies online.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n02:00\r\nLook. I think it's great for exposure in the industry, but I don't necessarily think that clients are getting a true understanding of what's available and how they should structure their own personal insurance.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n02:11\r\nWe're seeing a lot of these clients that we happen to stumble across\r\n\r\nYou\r\n02:15\r\nmight only have a singular benefit in place, but they think that it caters to all of their risk needs, and that's not the case. So through education, we bring them up to speed, sort of show them what's available, and go through that process and put them in a better position.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n02:28\r\nSo through some of the robo advice, etcetera, they're potentially signing up for things that they don't actually understand\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n02:34\r\nor think they've got cover that they may not actually have? Correct. And I think, like, we're pretty conditioned,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n02:39\r\nwe're getting better in New Zealand anyway, of\r\n\r\nYou\r\n02:41\r\nhaving some exposure to life insurance, but people are taking out a life insurance policy and thinking that's all they need. Mhmm. But they're not then going the step further to think about major illnesses and losing their income if they were to be out of work for a period of time. So without that education piece, they're doing what they feel is the right thing to do, but but they're sort of missing a piece to the puzzle.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n03:02\r\nWell, any insights, mate, to to stick to your craft for a decade? Like, a lot of people struggle these days to do one, two, even three years would be, like, a long time to stay somewhere. Sure. But I'd imagine that from\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n03:14\r\nonce you, you know, get through those first couple of years, then you're into your rhythm, and then it's probably the same thing just about every day, every week, every month, every year. And would I be right? Well, yes and no. Like, there there's a like, I enjoy a lot of things about what I do for work, and, fundamentally,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n03:32\r\nthe big thing is people. Right? Like, I get a lot of, value out of meeting people, meet some really inspiring,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n03:39\r\ncharacters along the way, which, like, I take a lot from.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n03:42\r\nYeah. Probably more recently,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n03:44\r\nthe challenge has been or the challenge and the opportunity has set in seeing the business grow and the involvement of now managing a team\r\n\r\nYou\r\n03:52\r\nand all that comes with that.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n03:54\r\nBut, yeah, each day seems to be different, but\r\n\r\nYou\r\n03:57\r\nworking with those clients, building those relationships, and now sort of years into it, starting to support them as claimed is starting to arise for various health conditions or minor events and just being there for them and actually being a voice that they can\r\n\r\nYou\r\n04:11\r\nconsult with, that they might not be able to with some of their own family even.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n04:15\r\nThey might not be able to get all of their advice from their doctor. So we do turn into a bit of a counselor, and we really respect and value that position that we hold with clients at particularly at that point in their lives. Because I I imagine a lot of people probably just look at insurance or the industry and think, oh, you're just selling people insurance. But that's just literally the start. Right? And there's ongoing advice, making sure it's fit for purpose\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n04:37\r\nand also\r\n\r\nYou\r\n04:38\r\nhelping them if they need to actually use it? Look. I personally run quite a pragmatic approach to people's levels of cover that need to go into place. You know, I think a lot of people can quite often build in nice to haves in the values that are getting created, but in turn, that's gonna increase the premiums.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n04:54\r\nYeah. So by running a more sort of staged approach to people's insurance,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n04:59\r\nwe put in place what's required now with a a twelve to twenty four month lens on it, but we stay in regular communication and start updating\r\n\r\nYou\r\n05:06\r\nas their life dictates it. And that might be increases depending if their family's growing, if they're taking on more debt, but it might equally be decreases as things are starting to improve in value in their background, whether it's KiwiSaver balances, the property values,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n05:21\r\nmortgages getting reduced, kids are now getting older.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n05:24\r\nThere are always a lot of variables that are constantly shifting, and it we don't wanna fall into a trap of going, hey. Look. We're thinking about having kids in three years' time. Let's consider that in part of the life insurance conversation now\r\n\r\nYou\r\n05:36\r\nbecause you take out more cover than that's what's required. And it might not be three years. It might be five years. So why pay the additional premium throughout that period of time? Just build a relationship with your adviser and sort of actually,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n05:49\r\nyou know, be open to having that review because\r\n\r\nYou\r\n05:52\r\nit's not always about us coming out to sell you more insurance. That's not the aim of the game. We just wanna make sure it's reflecting your position on an ongoing basis. Yeah. Nice. And that's actually sustainable. Because I guess the worst thing is that people will then get rid of their insurance because they don't, you know, feel like they they need it, and then they've got no cover. Yeah. Or people just don't engage with us for reviews, not so much with our clients, and then they start getting a bit disgruntled that they've just got this outgoing, and they don't understand what it's for. Yeah. And so we find through the review process, if you keep the conversation refreshed, people understand it, they get it, they see the value in it, and they're quite happy investing that premium on a monthly basis to know that they have that good solid plan b.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n06:33\r\nSo when you got involved in the industry in year one, did you see yourself doing a decade and and and carrying on from there? Yeah. I did. I absolutely saw where it is my career. Yes. And I was exceptionally fortunate to have my father in law's guidance on the way through, and I'm very grateful\r\n\r\nYou\r\n06:49\r\nfor him early on in particular. Yeah. In fact, he said he didn't want me early on, so he kicked me to one of the corporate insurers, which was the best thing I could have done at the time to get their training, get an understanding of the insurance world. And as I say to people, I went and joined him after a year and got the real world training of how it actually works and became an independent adviser, so we work with all insurance companies.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n07:11\r\nBut, yeah, it was always gonna be the Korean.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n07:14\r\nThere were always grand plans of working in his business with an aim to take it over.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n07:19\r\nThat, by\r\n\r\nYou\r\n07:20\r\ndefault, has actually started to change over the years. My business has got bigger.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n07:25\r\nStill a conversation that's\r\n\r\nYou\r\n07:26\r\non the table, but,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n07:28\r\nyeah, look. There's always something to work through. Yeah. Nice one. Well, insurance is a very wide topic. Right? So let's just narrow it down a little bit in terms of the types of insurance that you're mostly focusing on. And I had a quick look that apparently the most popular types of insurance in New Zealand, I'm keen to know if chat GBT is right on this, mate,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n07:46\r\nhealth, life, and income protection if we stay away from general and fire and stuff like that. Right? So would that be are those, like, the the key three these days that people are looking at? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So those are the fundamentals\r\n\r\nYou\r\n07:59\r\nto insurance. And inside that, there's a few different benefit subsets that you can consider.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n08:05\r\nBut, certainly, my focus sits in the space of looking after individuals\r\n\r\nYou\r\n08:09\r\nopposed to assets. So those are certainly the benefits that we offer to all of our clients. But probably the big one that's missing from there that I've been most passionate about is something called trauma insurance, which is really focused as a lump sum payment that's made at the diagnosis time for major health conditions, whether it be cancers, heart attacks, and strokes.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n08:31\r\nBut to me, that is the biggest life insurance related benefit\r\n\r\nYou\r\n08:35\r\nthat can really protect somebody's overall financial position.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n08:39\r\nYou know, getting that cancer diagnosis can be heartbreaking. It can be financially\r\n\r\nYou\r\n08:44\r\nvery unsettling for people,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n08:46\r\nbut having\r\n\r\nYou\r\n08:47\r\nthis payment come through at that point in your life can just take a lot of pressure off. It allows you to focus on the recovery without having to sell assets, come out the other side, and still be in a sound financial position for the rest of your life and also retirement.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n09:01\r\nSo is that did you say is that a so trauma, is it a type of life insurance, did you say? Yeah. So I broadly refer to life\r\n\r\nYou\r\n09:08\r\neverything as life insurance. However, inside life insurance, there are other lump sum payments, whether it's the trauma benefit,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n09:15\r\nanother one called total and permanent disability cover,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n09:18\r\nwhich is centered around loss of lit the use of limbs,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n09:23\r\nbut more commonly now we actually see it getting paid out around mental health conditions, which is a a growing area of concern in New Zealand. And then we have the sort of income protection related benefits, whether it's purely to replace income or if it's centered around making sure the mortgage can be serviced if you're out of work. Getting in the KiwiSaver fund that suits you and your situation is key to making sure you're maximizing your investment.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n09:46\r\nGenerate are an award winning KiwiSaver provider with a track record of long term performance and they can help you do exactly this. Their advisors can meet with you to talk about all your options when it comes to KiwiSaver to help you decide what's best for you. Too many people never get KiwiSaver advice, but not you. Go to generatekiwisaver.co.nzed/change\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n10:07\r\nto book a no obligation chat with a generate adviser. A copy of the product disclosure statement is available at generatekiwisaver.co.nzed.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n10:14\r\nThe issuer of scheme is generate investment management limited, and of course, past performance does not guarantee future returns.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n10:20\r\nSo your trauma cover could, like you said before, it could be cancer, heart attack, stroke. So you have one of those events in your life and basically that then\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n10:29\r\npotentially\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n10:30\r\ntriggers the payment of that, and you can use that to support your income\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n10:33\r\nor,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n10:34\r\nthe cost of your how your life now looks?\r\n\r\nYou\r\n10:37\r\nWell, it's more about meeting sort of increased living expenses as a direct result of getting that used. Yeah. So quite often, what I've seen with some of my clients is that\r\n\r\nYou\r\n10:46\r\nthey may be out of in out of work and also their income's been reduced or disappeared completely,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n10:52\r\nbut they in turn then need their partner to stop work to now care for them or be able to look after the children on a full time basis. Yeah. So we're actually allowing for both parents in some cases to be out of work and be able to financially manage that. But it's more about meeting the short term unexpected expenses opposed to it being a long term strategy for replacing lost income, and that's certainly where the value starts setting in income protection and mortgage repayment benefits. Okay.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n11:18\r\nSo then life insurance, this one seems a little bit simpler, is built around you pass away\r\n\r\nYou\r\n11:25\r\nand or you may pass away. Is that right as well? Or that's different again. Correct. So I think that's a big big misconception Yeah. Is that it's just a benefit that pays out if you have passed away. The reality is that it can also pay out if you have a terminal illness where there's less than a year to live.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n11:41\r\nI've had quite a few clients who have unfortunately been in this position, and it's been, you know, very interesting for me to be part of that journey with them.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n11:51\r\nBut in our conversations, the life insurance value is normally equated by, you know, the mortgage level, what levels of income we need to replace if they have passed away for their family.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n12:01\r\nBut when people have had a terminal diagnosis, I've had clients that have put their family onto a plane. They've gone and had the family holidays while they still had the ability to do it. Yeah. Had other clients who've gone out and bought a motor home because that was always part of their retirement dream, and they still wanted to be able to do that together\r\n\r\nYou\r\n12:18\r\nbefore they had to come back and deal with the reality of their situation. So\r\n\r\nYou\r\n12:23\r\nin our conversations, we have to send it around tangible items.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n12:27\r\nBut when people find themselves in that situation,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n12:30\r\nall bets are off and other things can be exercised.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n12:33\r\nYeah. So, basically, let's say someone like, how do you actually prove this? So you get a terminal diagnosis\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n12:39\r\nfrom a doctor, I assume, and then you go to your insurer or your adviser and then say, hey. Unfortunately, this is my situation.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n12:48\r\nYou know, have I triggered my insurance policy? And they just wired the cash over. Is that correct? In in a fit, that's how it works. So two specialists in that particular field would need to sign off that there it was a terminal diagnosis with that timeline.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n13:01\r\nBut from there, it's actually quite a straightforward process. And with life insurance claims, with the paperwork being available, claims are often paid within inside a week. Wow. So it does give very quick access to those funds.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n13:14\r\nAnd those funds might not go into the family holidays or the camper vans like some of my clients, but they might also go into additional medical treatment that might be available overseas, and it's not funded through our public health system or even the New Zealand based medical insurance policies. Yeah. But because they've got those funds available to them, they might be able to make different decisions that weren't previously available to them. So insurance is basically derisking a potential outcome,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n13:42\r\nright, no matter which way we look at it, whether it's a fire or death, etcetera. Correct. Yeah. Like, I mean, until you're in a position where you can write a check out to cover the financial exposure that sits in your life, that's where there's value in having that insurance in place. And as I say, as your position evolves over time and other assets grow in value, your need for insurance is actually gonna taper off. Yeah. So we need to map that out on our journey through our review conversations.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n14:08\r\nWhen do from your experience and then, Shrume, when do people\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n14:12\r\nnormally first get introduced to insurance in New Zealand? Is it around purchase of the first property? Yep. Bang on. Bang on. So it's it's either triggered by,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n14:21\r\ngetting married, which is probably\r\n\r\nYou\r\n14:23\r\nless common as the the driver to take out insurance, but then certainly having children\r\n\r\nYou\r\n14:28\r\nand then taking on debt where their financial exposure is starting to increase.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n14:32\r\nThat's where we need to cover that that that financial risk through insurance. And so does that look like, okay. I've now got debt.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n14:39\r\nIf I was to lose my income or life, etcetera, I want the comfort of knowing I've derisked the situation\r\n\r\nYou\r\n14:46\r\nwith a financial side on the other side of it where that could clear some of the mortgage or assure that the mortgage can still be paid so we don't lose the property? Correct. Yeah. So it's just taking that practical approach. And if it's a young couple buying a property and it's $50.50, it might not necessarily be that we're gearing your life insurance up to cover all of the debt because\r\n\r\nYou\r\n15:05\r\nyou might not have any dependents yet. You might buy you both might be making good levels of income. So it's more about just reducing your share so that no financial burden's passed on to your partner.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n15:17\r\nEqually, the same logic applies to income replacement.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n15:20\r\nWe don't always need to cover all of your income. The levels are really gonna be dictated by your current commitments and forecasting\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n15:28\r\nwhat those might increase over time and making sure that, financially, we have a plan in place to manage that. What about, you know, people being made redundant at the moment and losing their jobs and stuff? Is are they covered with some of these policies, or does income protection not sort of cover that that space? Yeah. It's certainly a pretty topical conversation at the moment. We're getting some phone calls. Yeah. We're certainly seeing a a a Verizon,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n15:52\r\nrequest to take out redundancy cover. In short, it is still available in New Zealand, but post COVID, a lot of the insurers pulled out of that space. Yeah. So we're down to two options.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n16:02\r\nCan't can't be taken out as a stand alone benefit, so it needs to be taken out in conjunction with an income protection or a mortgage repayment benefit. Yeah. But, yes, they're still certainly available and certainly will come in hot demand.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n16:16\r\nPersonally, I feel you, you know, individuals really need to look at their situation. They need to look at their employment contracts, work through it with their adviser to see if it's actually gonna be the right fit for them because they might actually be getting enough of a payout through their redundancy clauses in their contracts to actually outweigh what the benefit is in that redundancy product.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n16:36\r\nAnd I always say to people, with redundancy,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n16:39\r\nthe likelihood is that you've actually still got your health and your ability to work.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n16:43\r\nSo you might not go necessarily straight back into your dream job and dream levels of income, but you can still go out and work and get by and work your way back to those positions.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n16:53\r\nI would always be more focused on when you've lost the ability to work, when the big accidents happen, when the major health conditions come along, and you're out of work, it's out of your control with an unknown timeline.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n17:04\r\nAnd I tend to put more focus on that side of the conversation because of the long term risk associated to it.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n17:11\r\nAnd with the average age\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n17:13\r\nincreasing for the purchase of a first home, I think it's coming from, like, 25 to 37 or something, have you noticed that your customer age has increased naturally? Because then people aren't looking at insurance as early.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n17:25\r\nWe probably haven't seen so much of that average age shift in in our world. Like, as you know, I work with some great mortgage brokers.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n17:33\r\nOne of them sits on the podcast on a regular basis, and, typically, we're still seeing those clients be in their, like, twenties and early thirties. And I know that that's not the case based on the averages, but, certainly, the clients we're seeing and engaging with\r\n\r\nYou\r\n17:46\r\nare typically in that 20, 30\r\n\r\nYou\r\n17:49\r\nage band. Yeah. And then it's about building a relationship with them that we can look after them for the future and take care of them for their future insurance needs as well. And is there,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n17:59\r\nyou know, is there something we need to be thinking about when we aren't necessarily buying a property,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n18:05\r\nthat we need to be thinking about insurance earlier? Like, is there a case for younger people thinking about insurance in their early twenties? Sure. I mean, in effect, as soon as you start generating income, that becomes your greatest asset long term. Right? Yeah.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n18:18\r\nSo even if we look at basic maths for a 25 year old who happened to be on a 100,000, which I know is not always the case, but it makes the maths easier.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n18:27\r\nYou know, even without inflation and without any pay increases, over a thirty year time period to retirement,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n18:35\r\nforty year time period. Sorry. I might need to eat at that part.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n18:39\r\nYou know, that that's effectively a $4,000,000\r\n\r\nYou\r\n18:42\r\nasset to them that they might lose out on generating because of one of these unexpected health conditions arising. So my view is that the conversation should start early. We don't need to overinsure you early on, but we do need to start managing that risk as soon as you start generating income. Because most people who are working, to the most part, will be already renting properties. They might have some car finance. They might be making,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n19:06\r\nyou know, they might have committed themselves to\r\n\r\nYou\r\n19:10\r\nsome financial commitments and debt. Yeah.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n19:12\r\nSo the question does become, even at a young age, how would you support those expenses that aren't gonna disappear because you're not working,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n19:19\r\nand that's where the insurance piece comes back into it? And on that, is it cheaper when you're younger because you're then less likely to die probably statistically? Because this is how insurance is calculated. Right? Totally. Yeah. So, look, the premiums are very affordable for younger clients, to put good levels of cover in place. As you get older and that risk profile changes,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n19:40\r\nthen that is reflected in the premium structure.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n19:45\r\nBut there are a couple of approaches to this. So one, if I go back to the review, it's about managing the levels of cover that are in place because we don't wanna have you over insured and overpaying for premiums.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n19:56\r\nAnd then the second option is we can take quite a long term approach as to how we wanna structure the premiums on the policy.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n20:03\r\nAnd a lot of people just think that there's only one, and that's what we refer to as a rate for age premium. So that's gonna be each year, the premiums are calculated that based on your age, and as you get older, which we can't control,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n20:15\r\nthat's gonna start to, in turn, increase the premiums.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n20:19\r\nOr we can take more of a long term strategy and use something called a level premium, which is kind of like a fixed mortgage rate where we fix in a fixed monthly premium for a defined amount of cover over a fixed term, and, typically, that's to the age 70 or 80. And we know that we're basically gonna lock that level of cover in at a known quantity each month until you turn 70 years old. Yeah. So while it might work out to be more expensive short term, the savings over that term of the policy are substantial.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n20:51\r\nIt's just about making sure that it's gonna be financially affordable for each client, which is a big part to our conversation, and that it fits in with what their long term objectives are Yeah. In regards to their insurance position.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n21:03\r\nIn bit of a tangent. So I'm fairly sure every time I go and see my old man, he tells me how, his life insurance is getting more expensive because he's getting older, and he's like, you you could buy it off me. And so, like, that that's still a thing. People still do that. Yep. Look. It it's a pretty challenging conversation for people to have, and it's kind of taking a bet on mom and dad that at some point in time, they're they're gonna pass away, which is a sad reality, but we are seeing that more commonly happen where children will start to pay for their parents' life insurance policies because they are gonna be the beneficiary. So\r\n\r\nYou\r\n21:36\r\nwe don't see it a lot, but it certainly is happening.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n21:39\r\nAnd so in that position, do they like, would I just start paying his insurance on his behalf and I get something in writing to say, should he die, that that money, those funds don't go to the estate. They go directly to I become the policyholder. Sure. So there's a couple of different ways that we can set that up. So either we can nominate a specified beneficiary,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n21:58\r\nor you might even become a policy owner on your dad's life insurance policy, which means that you're paying the premium. But if in turn, if he passes away, you can speak to the insurance company, and those funds will be paid directly out to you. Yeah. Wow. Because I guess then the\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n22:12\r\nthe insurer is not gonna that they'd rather probably be paid. Right? But,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n22:15\r\nif he cancels that, then, basically, that's like, it's gone. Yeah. So in New Zealand, we only have something called term life insurance, which is effectively a yearly renewable policy,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n22:26\r\nand it's a fixed amount of cover for for set amounts of premium. But at the end of the policy or when you choose to cancel it or make significant adjustments to it, that becomes the end of it.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n22:37\r\nWe used to have these benefits called how whole of life or endowment policies,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n22:43\r\nwhere they're a combination of life insurance and also investments.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n22:47\r\nBut, ultimately, we didn't have the scale in our population to make them work.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n22:51\r\nCountries like China and India have they've proven to be unbelievably\r\n\r\nYou\r\n22:55\r\nsuccessful because they can just get the people into it and get a bigger pool of funds working for the policyholders.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n23:01\r\nYeah.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n23:02\r\nInteresting. Alright. Maybe I have to have a serious conversation with my dad. He might even be watching. I'm I'm not sure if he's joking or not, but, yeah, I wasn't even sure if it's still actually doable. But Yeah. Better watch out then.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n23:12\r\nYeah. Yeah. I have to go and see what it costs them. Hey. So what's the split in between the the types of, people that you're dealing with in terms of the type of insurance that they are, you know, getting support,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n23:23\r\nfrom you to put in place? In terms of the age demographic or the program? Yeah. Even the type. So because I know you probably do some in the business space as well, right, which we can get to, but is it predominantly,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n23:33\r\nlike, life income protection\r\n\r\nYou\r\n23:35\r\nat those two spots or or even, you know, first time buyers, etcetera? Yeah. So I think particularly for new clients for insurance, it's really important to discuss all benefits, and some might not be relevant to their particular position, but that can evolve over time, and at least they've got an understanding of how those might fit in.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n23:52\r\nCertainly, with my clients, they would always have life and trauma insurance as an absolute minimum foundation\r\n\r\nYou\r\n23:59\r\nplan.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n24:00\r\nMedical insurance is a good cornerstone to have in that because some of the medical costs in New Zealand are starting to skyrocket. Yeah. I think that problem's gonna compound,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n24:09\r\nin the years to come.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n24:11\r\nBut, typically, as my clients are typically first home buyers or they're going through a refinance process,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n24:17\r\nthey will always have mortgage repayment or income protection in place. And it's it's case by case dependent depending on what they do for work and how their finances are structured as to what's actually gonna be appropriate for them. Well, on that, there's a lot of chat at the moment about the cost of insurance increasing, and I think people are feeling it. What's driving that cost of,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n24:37\r\ninsurance increase? Well, in the life insurance space, over the last couple of years,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n24:41\r\none of our big hurdles has been the inflation rates have been so high. So the policies are typically increasing as you you get a year older, but they're also increasing with inflation.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n24:52\r\nSo that inflation rate is impacting premiums, and it's also increasing the sum insured value of the policies.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n24:59\r\nSo that's to make sure that a policy that was taken out twenty years ago is actually staying relative to the cost of a dollar\r\n\r\nYou\r\n25:06\r\ninto the future.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n25:08\r\nSo that's certainly been a big stumbling block for for people over the last couple of years.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n25:13\r\nBut once again, in that review process, you can actually discuss with your adviser declining that inflation readjustment, which can help manage some of that premium change on a year to year basis. And you don't need to decline it forever. You might do it this year. You might skip it for a couple of years and then decline it again.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n25:30\r\nBut, really, it depends on what your situation is.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n25:34\r\nFor most people, though, that have got maybe slightly older kids and their debt's reducing and their financial position's getting stronger, they might not have a need for that life insurance policy to keep increasing over time as well. So that's where we might permanently turn that inflation readjustment off.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n25:50\r\nI see. So that's basically saying let let's say, like, I when I took out life insurance, it was $200,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n25:55\r\nbut that was probably over ten years ago. So I want that to be adjusting to become adjusted for inflation so that it's keeping up with that. So I'm in Correct. Three I'm actually insuring myself for 330,000,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n26:07\r\nfor instance. Correct. So it's all relative. New Zealand. Yeah.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n26:11\r\nAnd and I think one of the other big components that we're seeing is that, you know, particularly if we look in the medical insurance space, we're starting to see a huge increase in claims starting to flow through across all providers here.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n26:23\r\nAnd, you know, the reality is we're pretty fortunate in New Zealand with our public health system,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n26:28\r\nand they're very well set up for acute related conditions, and I refer to things like heart attacks and strokes.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n26:34\r\nBut for nonlife\r\n\r\nYou\r\n26:36\r\nthreatening conditions, whether it's hip replacements and\r\n\r\nYou\r\n26:40\r\nevents like that,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n26:41\r\nit's all severity based, and it's a waiting list, and there's just an unknown timeline to that. And people are starting to get frustrated with it, and the timelines are actually getting blown out. So we've seen more and more people take out private medical insurance,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n26:55\r\nwhich in turn is putting more pressure on the private world.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n26:59\r\nAnd\r\n\r\nYou\r\n26:59\r\nin turn, some of those prices are starting to increase from those specialists, and surgical costs are increasing.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n27:05\r\nSo it's a compounding effect as as the pressure gets put into the private sector.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n27:11\r\nIn turn, that's gonna see the premium start to increase. I wonder if we could see a time where maybe people paying for their own types of of insurance that are then taking\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n27:21\r\nthe pressure off of the public health system could then be,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n27:25\r\nyou know, tax incentivized so that becomes a tax deductible expense. I'm probably hoping for something that Yeah. Never gonna happen. But you know what I mean? Like, people are kind of insuring themselves to go, okay. Well, I don't wanna have to wait. Mhmm. So I wanna be able to go private. And if they've got the means so they can afford to, then they aren't gonna use the public health system. So then they're both paying tax and then paying an insurance, so they don't need to use it.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n27:46\r\nI wonder It's a it's a great pipe dream, and we're certainly supported in our world.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n27:51\r\nI mean, we start to see elements of that creep in, you know, like, for all self employed people who are paying ACC levies, there are actually ways to adjust how much is paid to ACC.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n28:01\r\nAnd with some of those savings, it can offset the cost of putting in far more comprehensive income protection, mortgage repayment benefits to cover the same risk that ACC would have. But you'll also have the benefit of covering health conditions, which there's not a lot of financial support for through the public sector.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n28:18\r\nSo,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n28:19\r\nlook, it could happen.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n28:21\r\nCertainly. Yeah. Probably not. Let's start another poll, get some signatures, and see how we go. But,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n28:27\r\nlook, it it would be great to see initiatives like that come through, but it's certainly nothing I'm familiar with at the moment. I don't think it's on the radar for the insurers to be driving it at this stage. Yeah. But I guess what you're saying as well is that as more people have been thought, okay. I can pay for this insurance myself, then they're needing to use those claims, and then that's just putting more people into the private space as well, which is then driving up demand and therefore price too. Yeah. So, I mean, if we if we look at one of the health insurers that we work with, in July,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n28:54\r\ntheir claims\r\n\r\nYou\r\n28:55\r\nstats were up. They had 30% more claims than their previous month on record. And so\r\n\r\nYou\r\n29:01\r\nin turn, that's just a great signal that the private sector's getting more and more use.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n29:07\r\nYeah. More and more claims are getting paid. So this particular provider had about 260,000\r\n\r\nYou\r\n29:13\r\nclaims in the '23\r\n\r\nYou\r\n29:15\r\nfinancial year. Sheesh.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n29:17\r\nYeah. So it's massive. Yeah.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n29:20\r\nAnd and they're they're\r\n\r\nYou\r\n29:22\r\ngood scale size insurer, but there are other bigger providers out there that have seen far greater levels of of claim volume flow through.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n29:30\r\nBeat the power game with Power Shop. If you wanna get ahead with your money, you need to get ahead with your bills. Back in the day, I used to get a little thrill when a power bill would arrive in the mail and show that I was in credit. The thrill of being ahead of your bills is a feeling money can't buy. Power shop is in the business of delivering that feeling. They do things differently giving you the insight and control over your bill to stay ahead. With Power shop, you can see what you're using and purchase power packs which are discounted packs of power ahead of time. This enables you to plan ahead and pay for power when it suits you. All in all, being with PowerShot means you're informed and empowered to take control of your power bill. So what are you waiting for? Take charge of your dollars, kilowatts, and cents by switching to PowerShot. As a bonus, you can choose between a $150\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n30:17\r\ncredit or free weekends when you sign up. To see how much you could save, visit powershop.co.nzed\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n30:22\r\nand get a savings estimate simply by uploading a recent electricity bill. Talk to us about the mental health piece that you mentioned before in terms of people being able to claim for that. Like, how how is that coming about? Yeah. So, look, it's a it's a complicated one.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n30:37\r\nBut if we look at sort of short term events where we might be able to work for things like burnout or isolated stress,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n30:44\r\nthat's when we start to lean on benefits like income protection and mortgage repayment because it's recognizing that you're out of work due to medical reasons, and we're gonna make sure that there's continuing cash flow coming through in that particular situation.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n30:57\r\nFor very advanced conditions,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n31:00\r\nwhere you might permanently be taken out of the workplace,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n31:03\r\nthat's where the total and permanent disability benefit can come through and support you with a big lump sum pain payment to help support that transition\r\n\r\nYou\r\n31:12\r\nand sort of support you longer term.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n31:15\r\nThe health insurers in the market are doing what they can. Personally, I feel like there's work to be done by the insurers in this space, but we are starting to see some positive movement from someone health health insurance as a benefit offering sort of 2 and a half thousand dollars worth of\r\n\r\nYou\r\n31:32\r\npsychiatric support.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n31:34\r\nWe're starting to see some of the bigger insurers in the marketplace\r\n\r\nYou\r\n31:37\r\nreally drive wellness,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n31:39\r\nprograms as part of their insurance offering to sort of better support their clients, making sure they're staying active, doing their annual health checks, and and ultimately just keeping better tabs on their overall well-being. So\r\n\r\nYou\r\n31:52\r\nit's a slow it's a slow moving tide that we've gotta ride, but there is work to be done in that space.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n31:57\r\nSo if people have genuine mental health issues and they know that they've got forms of insurance, they should probably be reaching out to their adviser and saying, hey. Absolutely. Yeah. Like, I mean, we always encourage our clients to contact us\r\n\r\nYou\r\n32:09\r\nwhether they think that there's a claimable event or not.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n32:12\r\nAnd quite often,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n32:14\r\nthere have been cases where I've had calls from people and they go, look, it's probably nothing, but, you know, this little event's popped up. And I go, well, send me through this information. There's a process that needs to be followed, but let's explore it. You know? Like, insurance is there to be used, and we encourage our clients to use it. Because it's no real work for us to try and support our clients at that point in time. And I've got, you know, couple of examples where I've had those conversations with clients, and they've\r\n\r\nYou\r\n32:41\r\nyou know, one example is a client who had a grade four skin melanoma cut out of his neck, and it was a very minor\r\n\r\nYou\r\n32:47\r\nprocedure to have it removed.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n32:49\r\nBut because of the information that we sort of guided them to get, we went from going,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n32:55\r\nlet's just cover the cost of the medical procedure, to him actually having a full trauma insurance payment. And he didn't think that he was gonna get anything from it. In fact, he didn't even think he could claim for the medical procedure. So Yeah. Sometimes you just don't know what you don't know.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n33:08\r\nMhmm. I've had instances where we've\r\n\r\nYou\r\n33:11\r\nhad reviews with clients and, you know, we ask them how their health's been and what's been happening in this sort of world, and, you know, you'll speak to a husband and wife. I can think of one story quite clearly in my head where\r\n\r\nYou\r\n33:24\r\na good New Zealand bloke said, oh, nothing's wrong, and I'm still ten foot tall and bulletproof even though I'm 50. And Yeah. I remember his wife just booting him under the table and said, what are you talking about? You had prostate cancer last year. I was like, why didn't you contact us? And they're like, oh, we didn't think it was serious enough. We didn't think we could claim. So, well, let's get some, you know, backdated information. Let's run through the process, and sure enough, we had a trauma insurance payment paid for him.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n33:51\r\nMaybe a little bit late, but better late than never, and the timing worked out well for his daughter because he funded their wedding as a result of getting the payment. So,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n33:59\r\nyeah, no. That that was a good thing to be part of. Then. Yeah. And so is there any general rules for people that do have insurance to reach out to their advisers or their insurance companies\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n34:09\r\nto remind them, like, if that happens, I probably need to to tell them?\r\n\r\nYou\r\n34:13\r\nSo, look, we we certainly try and stay in regular communication with our clients, and we ask those questions as part of the annual review survey that gets sent out. But I would just encourage people to reach out to their advisers and just say, hey. Look. This has happened.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n34:27\r\nWhat are my options? And it might be that it might be too early on in the process, but we can give you some guidance on what not might need to be captured to support a future claim and things to be aware of throughout that process. Even who had broken bones potentially for some people with the type of cover they have. Absolutely. Yeah. So they can be isolated payments,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n34:46\r\nmade to recognize\r\n\r\nYou\r\n34:48\r\nbroken bones and fractures. So, you know, I think you have to be a bit careful with insurance that you can cover absolutely everything under the sun, and you can cover yourself up to the eyeballs. And I'm really honest with this, but you actually need to pair it back and go, this is plan b sort of stuff. We don't wanna set it up so it's gonna financially\r\n\r\nYou\r\n35:07\r\nenrich you. We're just making sure that financially, you're still gonna be in a really good place even if something unexpected\r\n\r\nYou\r\n35:14\r\narises. So as I said earlier, you know, I always run a pragmatic approach to putting the levels of cover in place that I do for my clients because I don't wanna overcomplicate it, and I don't want them paying too much. And how often should people be reviewing this? Is it, you know, as simple as annually, or are we trying to remind people a bit like a will, you know, if you're having kids or you're getting married or something happens, like major events you wanna be reaching out? Yeah. Look. It it's certainly an annual basis.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n35:41\r\nAt a minimum, I would encourage.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n35:44\r\nNot enough, in my view, changes over a six month period of time to dictate having a review at that stage.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n35:51\r\nAnd it might even be that clients just don't wanna engage with us for a couple of years because they just don't feel enough has shifted. You know? They've set up a brand new mortgage. They've paid down $20,000\r\n\r\nYou\r\n36:01\r\na debt. They don't see there to be enough value in adjusting the levels of cover at that stage.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n36:06\r\nBut I do say to people as well as, you know, it's it's an open line of communication. You know? Keep us in the loop. We wanna hear about your promotions. We wanna hear about kids coming onto the scene. You know? Like, we're excited for you. You know? We wanna be part of the journey, and let us sort of guide you on what ensure what that means on the insurance side of things. Do we need to increase? Do we need to decrease?\r\n\r\nYou\r\n36:26\r\nBecause\r\n\r\nYou\r\n36:28\r\nwe don't want to always just keep putting more cover in place, and there's variables that'll happen for some people, and this certainly doesn't apply to everybody, but they might have received an unexpected inheritance or there might have been some other sort of windfall that has come through.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n36:43\r\nYou probably don't need as much insurance anymore because you've been able to bolster your own personal position,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n36:48\r\nand Yeah. Your risk has been decreased.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n36:51\r\nI suppose you could have an an inheritance, for instance, and all of a sudden that completely changes your need for different types of insurance. 100%. Yeah. So\r\n\r\nYou\r\n37:00\r\neverything's an evolving picture, and insurance isn't a static thing. It's certainly not a sit and forget.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n37:06\r\nYou know, just engage with your advisers. I think, for the most part, we're all pretty good sort of people, and and we are just genuinely there to help you and guide you on something that you're probably not an expert in. And and that's where the trap, I think, it falls in that robo advice as people have gone on think that they've got what they actually needed, but there are some shortfalls, and that's what we need to guide them on. Do you ever end up reviewing some of that robo advice and then Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Have a little bit of time. We enjoy it. Yeah. And it's probably quite similar to some of the, old bank teller advice that was given in the insurance space. You know? Yeah. Ultimately, they were bankers. They weren't insurance advisers. They just didn't understand it in a similar way to a specialist in that field. And quite often, they've been sold lower quality benefits.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n37:52\r\nSo\r\n\r\nYou\r\n37:54\r\npolicies that might not cover a certain amount of conditions or the same level of conditions as some of the more, you know, what I'd refer to as retail insurers might cover.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n38:03\r\nThe levels of cover can be completely out of kilter with what somebody actually wanted.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n38:08\r\nSo\r\n\r\nYou\r\n38:09\r\nthe robo advice, the bank advice, it's always been a bit tricky, and we we certainly enjoy reviewing those policies and putting people back on on the path of what they actually need. Nice. So if anyone's ever had robo advice or basically over the counter\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n38:22\r\nbanking advice in the insurance space, probably much like KiwiSaver as well, probably worth\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n38:27\r\ngetting an adviser just to have a look at it. You don't even have to sign on, but, gee, wouldn't you rather know? Absolutely. And there's no cost to the client to engage with an adviser\r\n\r\nYou\r\n38:36\r\nto get some initial advice. Yeah.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n38:39\r\nSo we will, you know, gladly run through the process. Ultimately,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n38:43\r\nwe are paid by the insurance company on the completion of a policy, so there's no additional cost to you.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n38:49\r\nWe're not gonna send you out some hidden invoice that we're not disclosing. It's it's not the aim of the game. I think in your space, you even have to declare what you're potentially making on a policy. Right? So we're completely transparent on the process, and, you know, we don't hide\r\n\r\nYou\r\n39:03\r\nwhat what's available to us.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n39:05\r\nBut\r\n\r\nYou\r\n39:06\r\nit's a start of a good faith relationship with your adviser with an insurance company. So why not be transparent right from the outset so everybody knows what the playing field is? Yeah. Going back to what you're saying before, mate, about the cost of health increasing. So\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n39:20\r\nbecause I think well, yeah, you'd be better to answer this. Do you think that\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n39:25\r\na lot of New Zealanders don't actually realize how expensive an operation is or a medical procedure even once you start layering layering in an anesthetist,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n39:34\r\nand just how expensive those people are Yeah. And just a bit blase of, like, oh, well, she'll be right. Yeah. I think there's there's probably a lot of misconception, and and some of that might be driven by the fact that we do have a good public system and it has been so reliable for such a long time. But I think people's eyes are starting to open to what the true expenses\r\n\r\nYou\r\n39:53\r\nassociated to some of these procedures are now. Yeah. And we've gotta look past just\r\n\r\nYou\r\n39:58\r\nsurgical expenses. There are other unrelated costs, particularly in that cancer space around getting really good access to nonpharmac\r\n\r\nYou\r\n40:05\r\nregulated medicines that can really support\r\n\r\nYou\r\n40:08\r\npostoperative care, extend quality of life. But those drugs don't have any government subsidy at the moment. They're often privately funded,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n40:17\r\nand those drugs can be wildly expensive in some cases. And Yeah. You know, I've had clients who have needed them. They've been as much as $10,000\r\n\r\nYou\r\n40:24\r\na week. So Wow. Just financially unmanageable\r\n\r\nYou\r\n40:27\r\nfor people who don't have these plans in place, and it's those people who are then having to sell the family home and sell the cars to try and fund treatment to actually prolong their life, which is horrible to see. Yeah. That's why it's like anything we hope that it's not gonna happen to us, but, you know, this is what this whole space is designed to do is derisk it if it does happen to us. Yeah. Absolutely. And, you know, if we if we were specifically referred to that trauma benefit,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n40:54\r\nlike, we know that the average male actually claims at age 42 and the average female claims at 44. So\r\n\r\nYou\r\n41:01\r\nsome of these claim points aren't, you know, just for our sort of parents' generation, the 50, 60 year olds and older out there. It's it's happening to all age spectrums.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n41:12\r\nYeah. Last year, I had a claim for a three year old who was having some\r\n\r\nYou\r\n41:16\r\nserious complications with respiratory issues and had to spend an extended period of time in intensive care.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n41:22\r\nBut, you know, at nearly 40 now myself, we're starting to see our friends get impacted by them. I've had a friend of mine who's at 38\r\n\r\nYou\r\n41:30\r\nwho had an\r\n\r\nYou\r\n41:32\r\na stroke, and that potentially was gonna take him out of work for the rest of his life. So amazing to sort of see how these events are starting to creep into\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n41:42\r\nall wage spans. I suppose when we're in our early twenties, we're like, ah, no. Don't need to worry about that stuff. Just like anything. Don't need to worry about retirement.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n41:49\r\nNothing. Life's good. Yeah. Yeah. And then it starts to creep on you up on you real quick. Yeah. It does. And it becomes more real when you've got people who become financially reliant on you, whether it's a partner, whether it's children,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n42:01\r\nwhether it's\r\n\r\nYou\r\n42:05\r\nthe bank. Yeah. Yeah. Life does get complicated, so we wanna try and take some of that complication out of it and put in protection.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n42:10\r\nI was quite lucky. I had a employer and boss that sort of,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n42:14\r\npointed me in the direction of learning about insurance at a younger age, and\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n42:19\r\nI've just always had it since my my early twenties and then got to a stage where I didn't have property. So I didn't even really need it, but\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n42:26\r\nI could then make the decision of do I want to to keep this, and it wasn't the sort of amount of money that I'm like, nah. Like, I just purely, you know, can't afford this. But I'd imagine there's probably some people out there that go, well, I don't wanna pay that because then they,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n42:39\r\nyou know, wanna try and save it themselves or do that sort of thing\r\n\r\nYou\r\n42:44\r\nself insure. Yeah. It's self insuring as as a thing, and, you know, I'm not opposed to it, but it's about having things in balance.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n42:51\r\nBut going back to your earlier point there, you know, we're starting to see more and more corporates and bigger businesses start to implement these life insurance and medical insurance options for their staff.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n43:01\r\nAnd for those businesses, it's a great retention tool for being able to,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n43:06\r\nkeep\r\n\r\nYou\r\n43:07\r\nreally loyal staff to them. It attracts new people into their businesses as well.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n43:13\r\nAnd, fundamentally, I think that that starts educating\r\n\r\nYou\r\n43:16\r\nyounger people coming through because we're ultimately an underinsured\r\n\r\nYou\r\n43:20\r\nmarket.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n43:20\r\nAnd, you know As a nation? As a nation. And, like, you know, my parents certainly didn't educate me on the value of life insurance, something that I learned as time went by. And I've obviously chosen it now as my career and and and ultimately where my passion lies. But Yeah.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n43:35\r\nThe exposure to this\r\n\r\nYou\r\n43:37\r\nis pretty minimal. Like, unless somebody's told you to go and take it out, and typically it was the bank when you got your first mortgage,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n43:44\r\nup to from age zero to that point, there's nobody else going, time to take out some life insurance or get income protection in place. So,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n43:52\r\nI think that the corporates and bigger businesses in the market do have a responsibility\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n43:56\r\nto their staff to be putting these benefits in place. And is that something you do? So say an employer reaches out to you and says, hey. Can you come and educate our team on some of these types of insurance? You go into into businesses and give them a hand? Yeah. Absolutely. So quite often, we'll actually try and run sort of financial programs that we're working with those businesses.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n44:14\r\nWe can talk about mortgages, and we get in brokers to discuss that. We get in KiwiSaver specialist to make sure that they're getting the best value out of long term retirement savings, and then we bring in an insurance conversation.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n44:25\r\nAnd whether that's gonna be individual policies that are managed directly with, you know, new clients or if it's with the business itself to put in layers to their offering to staff. Yeah. Yeah. But it's absolutely a space that we operate in and and really enjoy working in. So if you, say that we're under insured as a nation, any data on, like, percentage of kiwis that are covered versus other countries and stuff like that? Yeah. So if if we look at one of the biggest insurance companies in the market who who currently sort of owns about 45%\r\n\r\nYou\r\n44:54\r\nof market share,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n44:56\r\nthey've got about 800,000\r\n\r\nYou\r\n44:57\r\npolicies in place.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n44:59\r\nWow. So\r\n\r\nYou\r\n45:01\r\nwe could sort of say that the other four main insurance companies\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n45:05\r\nwould equate to sort of a similar value. So we could say there's around sort of a million and a half at an estimate policies in in the market at the moment. Yeah. And is that across, like, health life, income protection, etcetera. When you talk about health insurance, is that, you know, that seems to be really popular at the moment around, I pay for x y z insurance, and I can get a massage, and I can have my teeth covered as well once a year and what whatnot. Is that health insurance? Yeah. Absolutely. So,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n45:30\r\nyou know, once again, having a pragmatic approach, particularly with medical insurance, there are a lot of add ons that can typically go into those policies, and you do need to weigh up if it's the right add on for you or if we're mainly\r\n\r\nYou\r\n45:43\r\nfocusing the plan around costs that are gonna be financially unmanageable.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n45:47\r\nYeah. But, certainly, as it as we talked about before, there are these wellness programs coming out by insurers that are, you know, really motivating people to stay active, be proactive about their health, get annual health checks. And if you're a part of those programs, they're amazing. They they actually give you discounts on your insurance premiums. And the more active that you are and the more engaged that you are, the more discount you can actually add to your policy. And in turn, they'll start to give you vouchers, whether that's for movie tickets or groceries. So you can actually get your insurance policy something that is a necessity,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n46:19\r\nactually subsidizing other parts of your life too. So Yeah. It's a great program. It's such an interesting space there because there's so many moving parts. And just reminded the conversation,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n46:28\r\nthat we've had previously where you said to me, oh, you could increase your excess and then that's gonna decrease your premium. So excess being if the insurance is to be claimed that you are having to let go of a lump sum of money, but then your insurance payments, the premium part is actually decreasing.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n46:45\r\nRight? Yeah. And I think it's probably\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n46:47\r\nagain, it's one of those things that you then have to think about because you might get yourself to a point where you're financially sweet to cover a higher amount of excess,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n46:55\r\nand then you don't need to be paying the same level of premium. Correct. Yeah. So it's it's all about finding out what the balance is for an individual. Yeah. But, you know, I'm very pro on having high levels high level excesses\r\n\r\nYou\r\n47:07\r\nbecause we wanna reduce the premiums while you're not using it, but we just need to be make sure that you're actually in a comfortable position to manage the Yeah. Thousand, $2,000 excess when that procedure pops up.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n47:19\r\nAnd have you noticed people,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n47:22\r\ncanceling their insurance or hearing that in in the industry with just how tricky it's been out there financially?\r\n\r\nYou\r\n47:28\r\nLook. There's there's a lot of hurt out there at the moment, and and we do we're exposed to some of them. But, actually, during these tough times, people will actually put more value in their insurance.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n47:40\r\nSo\r\n\r\nYou\r\n47:42\r\nwhat what the better strategy is to work with your adviser to see if there are ways of potentially suspending parts of the policy,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n47:49\r\ngoing premium holidays, and actually trying to find work around so you can still retain the policy.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n47:54\r\nMaybe it's just a matter of going, actually, our situation's changed, and we don't need the same levels of cover. Can we look to review it and adjust that? And that's the way that we manage premiums so we can retain it and hold on to it for the future.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n48:06\r\nBecause the risk is,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n48:08\r\npotentially, if you're in your forties or fifties and you go to cancel it, and then the economic times get better for you and you're back in secure jobs and steady income and you go, let's take the policy out again, well, you might have had a whole lot of health conditions that have popped up since you originally took out that policy\r\n\r\nYou\r\n48:24\r\nthat then limits your ability to take the policy out again in the future. So you need to be very mindful\r\n\r\nYou\r\n48:30\r\nwhen you are making big decisions like canceling a policy because they're permanent.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n48:35\r\nYeah. So alterations are certainly a better approach. Yeah. So let's, take out a policy and I'm 20 right, and then all of a sudden, 28, I have a bit of a back issue, but I cancel my insurance.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n48:46\r\nProbably by the time I'm at 32, when I go, right, I can afford to do it again, I'm gonna be excluded for things around my back because I then have to disclose that I've had that. That's right. And and, you know, it's a back example. That's the number one claimant for income protection policy. So,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n49:02\r\nyou you do need to be cautious of, as I say, those cancellations.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n49:06\r\nBut, equally,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n49:07\r\nanother way is to look at a policy that might have been in place for a number of years. Has it actually got exclusions on it or premium loadings that can now be reviewed based on your health profile\r\n\r\nYou\r\n49:18\r\nimproving. Like, they're not\r\n\r\nYou\r\n49:20\r\na permanent\r\n\r\nYou\r\n49:21\r\nfixture. There are ways that we can review it. Might even be you need to change provider to have it reconsidered, which is sort of, once again, plan b in that space. But there's always different angles that can be played, and just getting some good advice around it is is a really smart option. This is such a deep,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n49:39\r\nspace to try and figure out yourself. Right? Yeah. Look. If it's not the language that you're used to speaking in, you can see how people get lost, and that's why we try and take our time on on our process.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n49:51\r\nI remember when I first started in the industry, it was we meet once, we gather some information, we give you the recommendations, and here's the applications.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n49:58\r\nI mean, it's it's oversimplifying it a little, but, certainly, now I say to people, look. If this takes two meetings or if it takes 10 meetings, it doesn't matter. I've got all the time. We just need to make sure that you're comfortable with what goes in place. Because, ultimately, the adviser's not the one that's paying the premiums, but they're also not the beneficiary of that policy. So we need to make sure that everybody's comfortable with the plan that's going in place.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n50:21\r\nWhat word of warning would you have for those people who think, right, I'm not gonna pay my insurance, and I'm gonna put that money aside myself. And and is it really worth it? It's too or a little bit too expensive now.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n50:33\r\nLook. I think it's a really good plan if you can keep putting that money aside, and you don't have any health issues, and you're thirty, forty years down the track, and your little pot's no longer a little pot. It's a big pot of money, and and and that sort of serves you better for retirement. But it's it's more of the what if factor, and that's why I say run a pragmatic approach to what levels go in place to try and manage those premiums and just be a bit sensible about what you're doing from an insurance standpoint because\r\n\r\nYou\r\n51:00\r\nnot everybody's got the money to be able to financially support themselves for the rest of their life if they're out of work tomorrow, and they don't necessarily have the family support to make that happen either. So who's gonna look after you? What's your life gonna look like if you don't have a plan b in place?\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n51:15\r\nIt's I can see why people get there because they're looking for a way to cut some costs out of their life, or they learn, oh, yeah. I heard that insurance companies just take that money and they invest it themselves, and that's what they do. But,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n51:27\r\nlike, what happens if you do die or get cancer or something like that in that first two years or even probably like the first ten? You've got to run some math on okay. Just doesn't work. Yeah. I was gonna say, how many people do you actually see come up with that strategy and go, you know what? And then come back to you and go,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n51:42\r\nJohnny, guess what? I did cancel that in beautiful. I just got an,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n51:45\r\ncancer diagnosis, but fuck you, mate. I've got $300 stacked aside. Like, I'd imagine most people would be like, I'm gonna build a deck. I'm gonna do x, y, zed, and wouldn't actually leave it there. Yeah. Look. I think for most people, they don't have the discipline of actually putting that money into an investment and then seeing it through for it to become tangible. So,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n52:03\r\neverything in balance. And if your approach is to self insure some of it, great. You know? Don't take out something you don't need,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n52:11\r\nbut think about what the downside risk is. Can you put a smaller amount of cover in place and have it only there for ten years while you're still building that investment account? And in ten years' time, let's reassess it. If you don't need it, let's cancel it. Like, let let's be pragmatic about it. No. So what you're basically saying is, like, it's you don't have to go the full hog, and there could be there's different options where, you know, you might take one policy compared to three, etcetera, and then just keep adjusting as you go. Yeah. And it might be that you run a staged approach to it.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n52:40\r\nSo, you know, I appreciate particularly with clients moving into their first home, like budgets are put under pressure, and then you've got all your moving costs and setup costs. So putting the insurance,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n52:50\r\npiece into the budget can be very challenging for people. I get that.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n52:55\r\nBut look at where the support would potentially be for you. Like, we do still have the public system, so that is your fallback in that particular space. But if you're out of work, if you've been face faced with a major health condition,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n53:07\r\nfinancially, how are you gonna manage that? Perhaps short term, let's just get some lower levels of life cover in place. Let's put in a bit of trauma cover so we at least know you've got something.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n53:17\r\nAnd if that day does come along, at least you're gonna have some financial breathing space before you're forced to sell the property, before you're selling off your car and all the toys that you might have in the background. Yeah.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n53:28\r\nBecause if you're forced into selling a property, you're not gonna get a premium for it. Murphy's Law will say it's a bad market, and it's a bad time to sell the property. Factor in real estate fees, and all of a sudden, if you'd only recently bought that house, you're not even getting your deposit money back. You've just derisked it because you paid the bank off, but you actually haven't had any real capital that's gonna support you at that point in time. And what about with the introduction of KiwiSaver and KiwiSaver getting a bit larger? Are that some of the conversations you've having with older clients or clients that have gone through that journey where they go, you know what, Johnny? We don't actually need some of these policies anymore because we've got a pot of 600 g sitting there in KiwiSaver or an investment fund and things like that. Yeah. Absolutely. And and great that we love seeing that, you know, where we can minimize insurance and be practical about it. That's what we're very pro on.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n54:14\r\nWhere we need to be a bit mindful is where they're saying that they've got a lot of wealth tied up and they're in assets then aren't overly liquid.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n54:22\r\nYeah. Property. Work property. Yeah. But even even investments to the most part, like, there can be some pretty serious break costs, or you might not get a very good return if you're having to pull that money out in a short time frame. It might still be that it's quite practical and sensible to have a level of insurance in place so you know that you've always got,\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n54:40\r\nyou know, your, plan b there while you're actually liquidating some of those assets on a timeline that realizes the most value out of them. Yeah. It's interesting. I'd imagine that probably some people, once they get to that stage, they would see the cost of some of these policies and go, you know what? It's actually not that bad. I'm just gonna continue to pay it, and then they sort of end up accumulating more wealth if it's triggered. Yeah. And, like, I've got a client who's\r\n\r\nYou\r\n55:04\r\nexceptionally wealthy. They've got a huge amount of assets that sit in the background, but he know his he knows his household running expenses are massive. Yeah. And it's gonna take a long time for his wife and children to get access to his assets by the time they've gone through the courts and managed through the wills and trusts and all the complications involved in that. So he still keeps a million dollar life insurance policy, and it's a nominal cost for him to know that his wife's gonna have immediate access to funds\r\n\r\nYou\r\n55:30\r\nwhile she works through that process to get the as assets transferred to her.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n55:34\r\nDifferent different level of thinking, isn't it? Different level of thinking, and it's all proportionate to people's positions, though. And it's something you've gotta remind yourself of as an adviser is everybody's different. Everybody's needs are different. So there's no one size fits all approach. And that's the key for people to actually engage with the space and realize it's it doesn't need to be scary or it doesn't need to be slimy or salesy or whatever they've preconceived ideas be. It's basically,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n55:59\r\nI need help understanding my situation from somebody who has the expertise. Yeah. Like, we're not gonna ever sit there and say that you're wrong, but we might guide you on saying, hey. Look. I get the logic of trying to manage premium removing these particular benefits, but we still need to keep this in as a base plan. What would you say to those people who are listening and are thinking about maybe getting into the insurance industry for a career? Yeah. Look. You're likely probably a careers adviser in the space now after a decade. Well, maybe give me a call because we're always looking for good staff members. So,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n56:29\r\nbut, look, it it's a great industry\r\n\r\nYou\r\n56:31\r\nto join. It's very rewarding.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n56:34\r\nYeah. So, look, I I would sort of welcome people into the industry. I we welcome advisers. I feel like there aren't enough of us to go around. We need to be building out\r\n\r\nYou\r\n56:44\r\nour space and spreading the word wider and further.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n56:48\r\nBut it's a rewarding industry that you can build a business off the back of helping people. So it's a way that you can everybody can get what gets what they need. Before we go, mate, any gnarly stories or any still favorite stories from your your decade in the game?\r\n\r\nYou\r\n57:02\r\nWell,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n57:03\r\na story that I touched on earlier is\r\n\r\nYou\r\n57:07\r\nmy friend who had the stroke. It was a tricky situation. He'd actually been to a chiropractor and had a neck adjustment, and he had a very rare\r\n\r\nYou\r\n57:15\r\noutcome from that adjustment, which was a stroke. So he literally drove there, was taken to the, ambulance in a hospital afterwards,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n57:23\r\nBut this particular guy was sitting on some applications that we have been following up for about eighteen months, and he refers to it as the claim that cost him a million dollars because that was an increase that we were looking to make to a part of his policy.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n57:36\r\nFortunately, he already had some very good cover in place, so he was well supported.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n57:42\r\nBut, you know, while the conversation's live, you know, action it. Don't let it drag on too long Yeah. Is a key takeaway from that.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n57:51\r\nJust trying to think of some other good stories. It's always the ones in the media we see, right, where it's like someone cancels the policy and then three days later. I'd imagine that probably happens more than people realize, but\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n58:01\r\nit's just it's such a good story. But statistically\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n58:05\r\nwell, you know, such a good story to sell attention, but statistically,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n58:08\r\nthat probably, you know, happens quite often. Yeah. Look. Certainly, we encourage our clients who have been long standing clients of ours, and we've got very good personal relationships or or don't for that matter. But if they are looking to cancel their policies outright, we do encourage them to go and get a general health checkup with their GP. Go and run a set of bloods.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n58:27\r\nLook. The policy's gonna stay in place for maybe another month. You might have to manage another month's worth of premium, but it was worth it in case something\r\n\r\nYou\r\n58:34\r\ncame from that console Yeah. And and there was gonna actually be a claimable event or there were starting to be markers\r\n\r\nYou\r\n58:41\r\nthat might lead to there being a claimable event, you know, within a short timeline.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n58:45\r\nOh, you just scared the shit out of me going to the chiropractor the next time. Yeah.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n58:49\r\nWe didn't even really touch on the business side of things. So in terms of some of that cover, you I'm sure you mean you still do, like, quite a bit in that space for business owners? Yeah. So the conversation just changes from it being around individuals and families to it being individuals and their business partners. Yeah. And what we see in the business space is, you know, quite often,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n59:09\r\ncouple of mates have got together, they've built a business out of their back bedroom, and all of a sudden, that's turned into something that is worth quite a lot of money. But they don't personally have the available funds to manage a situation where the business partner passes away, and they're now in business with the wife or the husband, and all the wife or husband's now asking for their shares to be bought out at some sort of premium rate. Yeah. And so we try to manage that through insurance with\r\n\r\nYou\r\n59:35\r\nbenefits like life insurance and total and permanent disability cover.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n59:39\r\nAnd then there's also other ways that we can start to focus on business type clients where\r\n\r\nYou\r\n59:46\r\nthey might be key stakeholders in the business and vital to the operation.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n59:50\r\nWhat happens if they're taken out of work? How do we make sure that business is gonna keep running, and how are we gonna make sure it's financially supported?\r\n\r\nYou\r\n59:57\r\nAnd there's effectively income protection type policies for businesses that allow for locums to go in, work in the business, make sure it keeps operating, make sure everybody else stays employed and everything keeps ticking over in the similar sort of capacity\r\n\r\nYou\r\n60:11\r\nwhile one of those stakeholders is out of work focusing on their recovery program and until they get back. Definitely something that people that are in business with somebody else should probably be thinking about. Right? Because\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n60:23\r\nall of a sudden, they could find themselves in a position where they're now buying back the shares in the business that they helped build or borrowing against their property,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n60:31\r\nto to clear out the the spouse of the business partner and going, holy shit. How did all this happen all of a sudden? And and it's not always your intention to go into business with your business partner's spouse, right, or their children, and that can quite often become very complicated.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n60:45\r\nAnd then there's a different opinions, and it just means that the business fight value might actually rapidly\r\n\r\nYou\r\n60:51\r\ndecrease over time. So can a plan be created so if certain events are triggered, no one outcomes can be achieved, and then everybody's on the same program? You know, families are getting taken care of, business partners are being cared for,\r\n\r\nYou\r\n61:05\r\nand it's just a known quantity.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n61:07\r\nNice, mate. Well, who would have thought that insurance isn't as boring as accounting?\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n61:12\r\nAnd we can run through it out there quickly. Yeah. Awesome, mate. Thanks for having me in. Really appreciate it. So people wanna find you, Johnny. Where do they need to go if they need to get in touch?\r\n\r\nYou\r\n61:21\r\nLook. Best to look up our website, which is Insurance Market Collective.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n61:24\r\nReach out to me directly on Instagram. It's probably a good approach. Just johnny at winstone, all one word. Yeah. Hopefully, you can tag me at the end of this pod, mate. Yeah. No worries.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n61:34\r\nBut yeah. LinkedIn.\r\n\r\nYou\r\n61:35\r\nLinkedIn is always a good approach to.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n61:37\r\nSo yeah. And email address?\r\n\r\nYou\r\n61:40\r\nJust j.winstone@insurance-market.co.nz.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n61:45\r\nCool. I'll chuck some details into the show notes if people do need help in this space.\r\n\r\nMe (Speaker 0)\r\n61:50\r\nThanks again, mate. And I'm sure we'll have to, kick around some of these other topics because it's a it's a very big space and to be you know, to try and summarize all the work you've done in the last decade in in one year, doesn't do it justice. But I'm sure that would have got people thinking a little bit more about some of the things that they've probably been putting off. Yeah. Excellent, mate. Well, really appreciate you having me in, and it's great to actually be sitting in the chair and be part of the community, mate. You've probably listened to how many episodes now? Too many, buddy. Stick them up for us. Probably too many, mate, but they're always valuable, so I appreciate it. Brilliant.", "guardrails": "Do: keep claims factual, avoid financial advice, be clear and compliant.\nDon't: invent stats, promise outcomes, imply endorsements.", "scope": "In scope: Centastone capability demo; regulated marketing; insurance advisory context.\nOut of scope: legal advice; pricing guarantees.", "knowledgeContext": "# Compliance guardrails + disclaimers — NZ_FMA_Compliance_Guardrails_for_Insurance_and_KiwiSaver_Marketing\nNZ Insurance & KiwiSaver Advice - Compliance Guardrails for Marketing (FMA-led)\n\n\n\n Compliance obligations for NZ insurance, risk,\n and KiwiSaver advice marketing\n Practical guardrails for advisers, brokers, and Financial Advice Providers (FAPs) to keep marketing, social\n posts, ads, and internal processes aligned with FMA expectations and the Financial Markets Conduct Act\n (FMC Act).\n\n Key summary - non-negotiables\n\n • Treat all marketing as a regulated 'advertisement' if it is intended to promote an offer or encourage\n uptake; the definition is broad. [1]\n\n • Do not mislead, omit key qualifiers, or create a 'too-good-to-be-true' overall impression. Intention does not\n matter. [1][2][7]\n\n • Any claim about returns, savings, fees, rankings, service outcomes, or comparisons must be current,\n accurate, and able to be substantiated. Avoid 'unsubstantiated representations'. [1][2][7]\n\n • Balance risk and reward; do not highlight benefits while hiding risks in fine print or after a click. [1][2]\n\n • Be careful on content-limited platforms (short videos, short captions): if you cannot include necessary\n context and risk information, do not run the ad there. [1]\n\n • Online content can cross the line into regulated financial advice if it recommends specific products or tells\n someone what to do with their money. Disclaimers alone will not fix unsuitable content. [3][6]\n\n • KiwiSaver: prompt customers to consider pros/cons of switching and ensure incentives do not drive poor\n decisions. [4]\n\n • Ensure required disclosures are available and accessible (licensing, scope, fees, commissions, conflicts,\n complaints). [5][8]\n\n\n\n 1. Who this applies to\n This document is written for NZ insurance brokers/advisers, KiwiSaver advisers, and the organisations that\n employ or contract them (FAPs). It focuses on obligations and expectations relevant to advertising and client\n communications, because those are the highest-risk areas for an AI marketing agent.\n\n\n 2. Primary regulatory sources (marketing-relevant)\n • Financial Markets Conduct Act 2013 (FMC Act) - Part 2 'fair dealing' rules apply widely to financial\n products and services; the FMA can also use stop orders to stop advertising that is likely to confuse. [2][7]\n\n • FMA guidance on advertising offers of financial products - explains how the FMA interprets fair dealing in\n advertising and what 'good' looks like. [1]\n\n • Financial Advice Code (Code of Professional Conduct for Financial Advice Services) - minimum\n standards for people giving regulated financial advice (treat fairly, integrity, suitability, understanding,\n privacy). [3]\n\n • Disclosure regime for regulated financial advice - required disclosures to retail clients at different stages\n (public, initial, and when giving advice). [5][8]\n\n • KiwiSaver sales and advice guidance - includes incentives and switching/transfer behaviour. [4]\n\n\n\nGenerated 2026-02-10 | Internal guardrails (not legal advice) Page 1\n\fNZ Insurance & KiwiSaver Advice - Compliance Guardrails for Marketing (FMA-led)\n\n\n • Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) Financial Advertising Code - industry advertising standards that sit\n alongside legal obligations. [9]\n\n\n 3. What advisers can and cannot do in marketing\n Core rule: marketing must not create a misleading or confusing overall impression. The 'overall impression'\n matters more than any single sentence or disclaimer, and intent is irrelevant. [1][2]\n\n 3.1 Fair dealing - practical 'can / cannot' checklist\n Can\n\n • Use plain language that a typical retail customer would understand.\n\n • Present key limits and conditions alongside the benefit (not hidden after a click).\n\n • Use accurate, current facts; keep evidence on file for every factual claim.\n\n • Use balanced statements about returns and risks; include fees and assumptions where relevant.\n\n • Use testimonials only if representative, not cherry-picked, and not implying guaranteed outcomes; make\n incentives/paid partnerships obvious.\n\n Cannot\n\n • Imply guarantees of returns, acceptance, or savings when outcomes depend on underwriting, eligibility,\n market performance, or assumptions.\n\n • Promote high returns or big savings without equally prominent risk/limitations/fees context.\n\n • Use absolute superlatives ('best', 'cheapest', 'No.1') without robust, current substantiation and clear basis\n for comparison.\n\n • Use fine print to contradict the headline claim.\n\n • Use urgency/pressure tactics or unsolicited meeting style approaches to push an offer.\n\n 3.2 Claims must be substantiated (evidence file)\n The FMC Act prohibits 'unsubstantiated representations' and false or misleading representations. In practice:\n keep an evidence pack for each campaign (source data, date captured, methodology, assumptions, and\n approval sign-off). [1][2][7]\n\n • Examples of claims needing evidence: premium savings, 'we handle claims faster', acceptance rates,\n 'X% cheaper', performance rankings, fee comparisons, ESG claims, tax outcomes, or customer outcome\n claims.\n\n • Evidence must match what the consumer will infer from the ad (not a narrower internal definition). [1]\n\n • Update or withdraw claims when the evidence becomes stale (e.g., pricing or performance changes).\n\n 3.3 Comparisons (providers, policies, funds)\n Comparisons are high-risk because consumers may assume like-for-like. Only compare comparable\n products/features, and explain what is included/excluded. Avoid comparing dissimilar products or using\n selective timeframes. [1][2]\n\n • State the comparison basis: date, sample size, insurers/funds included, and key assumptions.\n\n • Do not present 'average premium' or 'typical savings' as universal; use ranges and qualifiers.\n\n • Where relevant, prompt customers to review a Product Disclosure Statement (PDS) or official fund\n information before deciding.\n\n 3.4 Content-limited platforms (short video, short captions, banners)\n\n\n\nGenerated 2026-02-10 | Internal guardrails (not legal advice) Page 2\n\fNZ Insurance & KiwiSaver Advice - Compliance Guardrails for Marketing (FMA-led)\n\n\n If the medium cannot carry the context a retail client needs (risks, fees, key conditions), the safer choice is\n not to run the ad on that medium or to restructure to a compliant level of detail. FMA guidance explicitly\n addresses content-limited platforms. [1]\n\n\n 4. Where marketing becomes regulated financial advice\n Online marketing can drift into regulated financial advice when it recommends specific products, suggests a\n switch, or tells a person what they should do with their money. The FMA has issued guidance for 'talking\n about money online' because this boundary is often crossed in social content. [6]\n\n Guardrails for an AI agent:\n • Allowed: general education, explanations of concepts, checklists of questions to ask, and calls-to-action\n to book advice (without implying a recommendation).\n\n • Not allowed: 'You should switch to Fund X', 'Move your KiwiSaver now', 'This cover is right for you', or\n any personalised recommendation without an advice process.\n\n • Disclaimers ('this is not advice') do not cure content that is effectively a recommendation; the content\n itself must stay on the safe side. [6]\n\n • Any personalised response to a customer comment/DM should be routed into your regulated advice\n workflow (identity, scope, disclosures, fact-find, suitability). [3][5]\n\n\n 5. Required disclosures in marketing and lead capture\n The disclosure regime is designed so retail clients can understand who is advising them, what advice they\n can expect, and what conflicts/incentives exist. Marketing and websites should make disclosures easy to find\n and not misleading by omission. [5][8]\n\n • Public disclosure (website): FAP name, licence status, services, fees/expenses, commissions/incentives,\n conflicts, and complaints/dispute resolution. [5]\n\n • Initial disclosure (first engagement): scope of advice, fees, incentives, conflicts, and complaints process.\n [5]\n\n • When giving advice: include information needed to evaluate the advice (fees, product/provider\n remuneration, conflicts, limitations, and why the recommendation suits). [3][5]\n\n\n 6. KiwiSaver-specific marketing and advice guardrails\n FMA KiwiSaver guidance covers how providers/advisers should talk to investors, including switching/transfer\n conversations and customer incentives. [4]\n\n 6.1 Switching and transfers\n • Do not market fund switching as a default win. Prompt investors to consider advantages and\n disadvantages, including fees, investment risk, time horizon, and loss of benefits (if any). [4]\n\n • Be cautious using performance tables or 'top fund' claims; explain that past performance is not a reliable\n indicator of future performance and ensure the presentation is not misleading. [1][4]\n\n 6.2 Incentives and promotions\n The FMA expects incentives not to distort decision-making. Incentives should never be the main driver of\n switching or signing up. [4]\n\n • Allowed with care: modest incentives that are clearly disclosed, secondary to the investment decision,\n and paired with prompts to consider pros/cons. [4]\n\n • Not allowed: marketing that creates pressure, hides strings attached, or implies the incentive makes the\n product better for the customer.\n\n\n\nGenerated 2026-02-10 | Internal guardrails (not legal advice) Page 3\n\fNZ Insurance & KiwiSaver Advice - Compliance Guardrails for Marketing (FMA-led)\n\n\n • Always disclose when an influencer/affiliate is paid or rewarded for promotion; treat that as a\n conflict/incentive disclosure. [6][9]\n\n\n 7. AI marketing guardrails: mandatory workflow\n Use this as a 'hard gate' checklist for any AI-generated asset before publication.\n\n 1 Classification: Is this (a) education, (b) brand marketing, (c) product offer/promotion, or (d) advice? If (d)\n or borderline, route to advice workflow and stop. [3][6]\n\n 2 Fair dealing test: What is the overall impression? Could a retail client be misled or confused, even if\n technically true? [1][2]\n\n 3 Substantiation: For every claim, attach evidence (date, source, methodology). If you cannot evidence it,\n delete it. [1][2]\n\n 4 Balance: Are risks, limitations, fees, and key conditions as prominent as benefits? [1][2]\n 5 Comparisons: Are we comparing like-for-like with an explained basis? [1]\n 6 Disclosure: Is licensing/scope/fees/incentives/complaints information accessible from the same journey\n (page, bio link, ad landing page)? [5][8]\n\n 7 KiwiSaver: If the message could prompt switching/transferring, include pros/cons prompts and avoid\n incentive-led framing. [4]\n\n 8 Record: Keep a copy of the final asset, approvals, evidence pack, and target audience/placement details.\n\n\n 8. Quick 'red flag' phrases for AI to avoid\n If any of these appear, require human compliance review and likely rewrite:\n Guaranteed, No risk, Sure thing, Best / cheapest (without evidence), Everyone should, Switch now, Limited time\n (pressure), Approved / endorsed by the government (unless exact and true), Beat the market, Free money.\n\n\n\n\nGenerated 2026-02-10 | Internal guardrails (not legal advice) Page 4\n\f NZ Insurance & KiwiSaver Advice - Compliance Guardrails for Marketing (FMA-led)\n\n\n\n Sources and links\n Use these as primary references when updating guardrails. URLs are provided so an AI agent can fetch\n source material directly.\n\n• [1] FMA (2021) Advertising offers of financial products under the FMC Act - Guidance Note (PDF).\n https://www.fma.govt.nz/assets/Guidance/Advertising-offers-of-financial-products-guidance-note.pdf\n\n• [2] FMA Fair dealing overview page (Part 2 FMC Act + stop orders).\n https://www.fma.govt.nz/business/legislation/fair-dealing/\n\n• [3] Financial Advice Code Committee (2025) Code of Professional Conduct for Financial Advice Services\n (official version, PDF).\n https://financialadvicecode.govt.nz/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/code-2025-official-version.pdf\n\n• [4] FMA (2017) KiwiSaver sales and advice - Guidance page (with PDF).\n https://www.fma.govt.nz/library/guidance-library/kiwisaver-sales-and-advice/\n\n• [5] Legislation NZ: Financial Markets Conduct (Regulated Financial Advice Disclosure) Amendment\n Regulations 2020.\n https://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2020/0132/latest/whole.html\n\n• [6] FMA (2026) Talking about money online (guidance for online content creators).\n https://www.fma.govt.nz/library/articles/talking-about-money-online/\n\n• [7] Legislation NZ: Financial Markets Conduct Act 2013 (Part 2 - fair dealing, incl. ss 19-33).\n https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2013/0069/latest/DLM4090947.html\n\n• [8] FMA (2025) Introductory guide to full Financial Advice Provider licence requirements (PDF).\n https://www.fma.govt.nz/assets/Licensing-guides/Introductory-guide-to-full-licence-requirements.pdf\n\n• [9] Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) Financial Advertising Code.\n https://asa.co.nz/codes/codes/financial-advertising-code/\n\n\n\n\n Generated 2026-02-10 | Internal guardrails (not legal advice) Page 5\n\f\n\n---\n\n# Brand Guidelines — brand\n\f Centa (noun)\n Etymology: Derived from the Latin root for central and centum (“hundred”), symbolising\n the core, the hub, and precision in guidance.\n Definition:\n 1. The point of focus around which everything revolves.\n 2. Figuratively, a source of clarity, direction, and unity.\n\n Stone (noun)\n Etymology: From Old English stān, a universal symbol of endurance and strength.\n Definition:\n 1. A naturally hard solid material, representing durability\n 2. Figuratively, a foundation of stability, resilience, and trust.\n\n\nWe are a trusted financial advisory partner that's central to our clients future\nplanning; guiding across KiwiSaver, insurance and risk.\n\nIt’s a name built on purpose: we are both essential and dependable.\n\f Wordmark\n\n\n\n\n Brandmark\n Tagline\nLOGO\n\f “Building Your Future” is both a promise and a responsibility.\n\n At Centastone, we don’t sell products, we build futures. We do this by placing\n people at the centre of what we do, and by laying down strong, reliable\n foundations in insurance, KiwiSaver, and financial advice.\n\n Just like a cornerstone in architecture, Centastone is the solid start to\n something lasting.\n\n\n\n\nTAGLINE\n\f 90°\n\n\n\n\n 270°\n\n\n\n\n 270°\n 90°\n 90°\n\n\n\n\nBRANDMARK - The Inspiration\n\f In almost all cases the full logo should be used. It combines the brandmark,\n the logo and tagline all in one.\n\n\n\n\nPRIMARY LOGO\n\f Horizontal\n\n\n\n\n Vertical\n\n\n\n\n If the primary logo does not fit, the secondary logo can be used. There is both a horizontal\n and vertical logo, depending on the use.\n If using the tag line is not appropriate, then either of the above logos should be used.\n\n\nSECONDARY LOGO\n\f The supporting logo assets can be used where it is immediately evident you are dealing\n with Centastone. Social Media, Internal Comms or if the logo has already been used,\n are great examples of where these are appropriate.\n\n\nSUPPORTING LOGOS\n\f1. No Keyline 2. Do Not Alter Or Stretch\n\n\n\n\n3. Logo Colours Or Shape Are Not To Be Changed 4. Logo Is Not To Be Edited\n\n\n\n\nLOGO RULES - The Do Not’s\n\f Minimum clearance equal to at least the height of the C should be used around the logo to ensure\n there is clear space.\n\n When presented along side other logos, no logo should be more dominant or suggest a partnership\n outside of the acceptable agreement, as per the AIA example here.\n\n\n\n\nLOGO SPACING\n\f The Centastone Purple “Future Purple” has been carefully\n selected to ensure it represents the Centatsone brand. It\n must be used according the colour codes on this page to\n ensure consistency across all assets.\n\nCOLOUR\n\f FUTURE INDIGO\n\n\n\nTINTS - Adding White\n\n\n\n\nSHADES - Adding Black\n\n\n\n\n 120% 140% 160% BLACK\n\n\n\n\nCOLOUR USE\n\f Headings should\n always capitalised\n\n Sub Headings in\n Title Case\n\n\n\n\nTYPOGRAPHY\n\f CONTRAST CHECKER\n\n\n\n\n COLOUR BLINDNESS\n SIMULATOR\n\n\n\n\n Colour variations in text should be high contrast.\n Be aware that this colour can be perceived\n differently to those with colour blindness. High\n contrast ensures it is easy to read by all.\n\n\nTYPOGRAPHY & COLOUR\n\f The Centastone pattern was designed to create visual\n interest for the brand. It is made by repeating the brand\n mark. It should only be used in the above colours, in a full\n shape.\n\n\nPATTERN\n\f CENTASTONE\n We’re deeply invested in the communities we serve, Our clients count on us to safeguard what matters\n building relationships that go beyond policies to most, and we earn that trust through consistent,\n create lasting positive impact. reliable service.\n\n\n\n Every decision we make starts with our clients We believe in clear, honest communication, no hidden\n needs, ensuring protection and peace of mind at terms, no surprises, just straightforward insurance you\n every stage of life. can understand.\n\n\n\n With years of proven expertise and integrity, we stand We harness the latest tools to make insurance simpler,\n behind our advice, our products, and our promises. faster, and more accessible, without losing the human\n touch.\n\n\nVALUES - The T’s and C’s\n\f We communicate in plain, concise language that is easy to\n understand.\n\n\n Every interaction is polite, respectful, and considerate of the\n recipient’s time.\n\n\n We respond promptly, keeping clients informed without\n unnecessary delays.\n\n\n Our messages are complete, accurate, and leave no\n unanswered questions.\n\nCOMMUNICATION - The T’s & C’s\n\fPRESENTATION - The T’s & C’s\n\fWe listen attentively, value every perspective, and communicate in a way that honours our clients\nand their experiences.\n\n\nWe understand that insurance often comes at important life moments, and we speak with care,\ncompassion, and understanding.\n\n\nOur language is warm, clear, and free of jargon, making it easy for anyone to start a conversation\nwith us.\n\n\nWe uphold the highest standards in our communication, ensuring accuracy, clarity, and reliability in\nevery interaction.\n\nTONE OF VOICE\n\f\f\n\n---\n\n# Brand Guidelines — Brand Guidelines\n\n\n---\n\n# Brand Guidelines — \n" } }

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{ "id": "resp_0726b91e194ab66100698bed20ee248195a74e530436495f5d", "object": "response", "created_at": 1770777888, "status": "completed", "background": false, "billing": { "payer": "openai" }, "completed_at": 1770777897, "error": null, "frequency_penalty": 0.0, "incomplete_details": null, "instructions": null, "max_output_tokens": null, "max_tool_calls": null, "model": "gpt-4o-mini-2024-07-18", "output": [ { "id": "msg_0726b91e194ab66100698bed21f884819596b3b8c466358cd3", "type": "message", "status": "completed", "content": [ { "type": "output_text", "annotations": [], "logprobs": [], "text": "{\"deliverable\":\"## Creative Direction (Global)\\n- Primary angle: Client-advisor interaction highlighting the personal touch in insurance advice.\\n- Audience: Young professionals and families in New Zealand considering insurance solutions.\\n- Emotion: Empathy and nurturing, evoking feelings of safety and understanding.\\n- Visual style: Photo-realistic, capturing genuine human interactions with a professional yet warm atmosphere.\\n- Color cues: Predominantly white backgrounds with tasteful bokeh; subtle Future Purple gradient accents integrated into the environment.\\n- Composition rules: Ensure a balanced scene with a focus on the interactions, leaving clear space for text overlay.\\n- Negative prompt (global): Avoid artificial or uncanny facial expressions, cluttered backgrounds, and overly dramatic scenes.\\n\\n## HERO IMAGE\\n- Purpose: To serve as the main visual that encapsulates the essence of Centastone's advisory services.\\n- Scene brief: A diverse financial advisor animatedly engaging with a young couple in a tasteful office setting, showcasing a warm and inviting environment.\\n- Composition (where text overlay sits): Space on the right side of the image for text overlay, leaving the left side dominant with the subjects.\\n- Prompt: \\\"Photo-realistic image of a diverse financial adviser and a young couple in a professional office, engaging in a vibrant discussion over financial documents, surrounded by modern decor, white background with subtle bokeh and Future Purple accents, soft lighting, natural smiles.\\\"\\n- Negative prompt: No clutter, awkward body language, or overly staged poses.\\n\\n## CAROUSEL BACKGROUNDS (5)\\n### Slide 1\\n- Slide goal: Introduction to insurance and its importance.\\n- Scene brief: A financial adviser leaning forward, listening intently to a young woman sharing her story in a relaxed caf\u00e9 setting.\\n- Composition: Adviser in focus on the left; space for text on the right side, with caf\u00e9 elements in the background.\\n- Prompt: \\\"Photo-realistic image of a financial adviser and a young woman conversing in a cozy caf\u00e9, natural lighting with white backgrounds, bokeh effect, representing a personal touch in finance.\\\"\\n- Negative prompt: Avoid cluttered tables and overly posed expressions.\\n\\n### Slide 2\\n- Slide goal: Emphasize the need for continuous communication.\\n- Scene brief: A family discussing financial options around a kitchen table, surrounded by family photos.\\n- Composition: Focus on family interaction, text overlay positioned above, maintaining white space.\\n- Prompt: \\\"Photo-realistic image of a family gathered around a kitchen table discussing with their adviser, warm lighting, white background and subtle bokeh, depicting familial support.\\\"\\n- Negative prompt: No staged smiles or empty plates.\\n\\n### Slide 3\\n- Slide goal: Highlight the advisor's role in guiding clients through challenges.\\n- Scene brief: A diverse adviser comforting a client in a consultation room, showing empathy and understanding.\\n- Composition: Close-up on adviser and client, with clear space on the left for text.\\n- Prompt: \\\"Photo-realistic image of a financial adviser showing empathy towards a client in a consultation room, with soft natural lighting and backgrounds that include Future Purple tones.\\\"\\n- Negative prompt: Avoid dramatic expressions or busy backgrounds.\\n\\n### Slide 4\\n- Slide goal: Showcase community and relationship building.\\n- Scene brief: An adviser leading a workshop for young families in a community center, interacting with attendees.\\n- Composition: Adviser central, with attendees engaged and text space available above.\\n- Prompt: \\\"Photo-realistic image of a financial adviser conducting a workshop in a community center, various families participating, bright and welcoming environment, emphasizing connection.\\\"\\n- Negative prompt: No distractions in the background or unengaged participants.\\n\\n### Slide 5\\n- Slide goal: Reinforce the future-oriented aspect of financial planning.\\n- Scene brief: A young couple viewing property listings on a laptop with their adviser, displaying excitement for their future.\\n- Composition: Laptop and the couple in focus, with space to the right for overlay text.\\n- Prompt: \\\"Photo-realistic image of a young couple exploring property options on a laptop with their adviser, positioned in a modern office with accents of Future Purple and white background.\\\"\\n- Negative prompt: Avoid distractions in the scene and staged reactions.\\n\\n## QUOTE CARD BACKGROUNDS (3)\\n### Quote 1\\n- Quote theme: \\\"Planning today for a secure tomorrow.\\\"\\n- Scene brief: A serene office view with natural light streaming through, accompanied by an abstract representation of a graph indicating growth.\\n- Composition: Centered quote with the office background slightly blurred.\\n- Prompt: \\\"Photo-realistic image with a serene office environment and a blurred background graph concept, aligned with inspiring financial quotes.\\\"\\n- Negative prompt: Avoid crowded spaces and unclear visuals.\\n\\n### Quote 2\\n- Quote theme: \\\"Insurance is just a part of your financial journey.\\\"\\n- Scene brief: A casual setting with an adviser and client laughing, creating relatable energy.\\n- Composition: Quote overlay in the center, friendly interaction in focus.\\n- Prompt: \\\"Photo-realistic image of a financial adviser and client sharing a laugh in a casual setting, creating a warm atmosphere around the quote.\\\"\\n- Negative prompt: Avoid unnatural gestures or awkward spacing.\\n\\n### Quote 3\\n- Quote theme: \\\"Your future is worth protecting.\\\"\\n- Scene brief: A family enjoying a picnic, encapsulating joy and long-term planning.\\n- Composition: Natural surroundings with quote overlay on the foreground.\\n- Prompt: \\\"Photo-realistic image of a happy family enjoying a picnic in a park with a soft focus on family moments, paired with inspiring financial quote overlay.\\\"\\n- Negative prompt: Avoid clutter, unnatural poses, and overexposure.\\n\\n## TEXT OVERLAY PLAN\\n- Font vibe: Clean, modern sans-serif font that is easy to read.\\n- Safe margins: Maintain a margin of 1/10th of the image border for all sides.\\n- Hero overlay suggestion: \\\"Discover Your Personalized Financial Journey With Us\\\".\\n- Slide overlay suggestions (1\u20135): \\n 1. \\\"Let's Talk Insurance\\\" \\n 2. \\\"Communicate Constantly\\\" \\n 3. \\\"Your Advisor Is Here For You\\\" \\n 4. \\\"Building Community Connections\\\" \\n 5. \\\"Plan For Your Dream Future\\\" \\n- Quote overlays (1\u20133): \\n 1. \\\"Planning today for a secure tomorrow.\\\" \\n 2. \\\"Insurance is just a part of your financial journey.\\\" \\n 3. \\\"Your future is worth protecting.\\\" \\n\",\"rationale\":\"The visual direction is designed to elicit empathy, understanding, and professionalism, resonating with Centastone's brand ethos. 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